#71  
Old 08-29-2020, 10:55 AM
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A lot of confusion comes from mixing the number of discs (i.e. size of your bag, i.e. disc minimalism) into the whole mold minimalism and cycling debate. Mold minimalism does not say anything on the number of discs you bag.

Throwing different angles is related to the number of different slots that you have in your bag. A slot usually equals one disc, excluding backups. If you bag 5 Rocs these either fill 5 slots or some of them are backups. If your bag has 20 slots, you'll throw the same angles, no matter if they are in 5 or in 20 molds. (This is what rusch_bag wrote.) If your bag has fewer slots, you'll have to do more with angles. If you talk about angles, molds don't matter.

The number of discs/slots (which nobody talks about) is orthogonal to the number of molds/cycling (everyone talks about). Both aspects have an influence in the topic.
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  #72  
Old 08-29-2020, 11:12 AM
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Totally unrelated, but I don't really get all the SD hate. And I think it funny that he keeps getting referenced even though I can't remember the last time I saw him post. Is that guy even around anymore? He definitely created a very vocal and dedicated group of haters. Did he get banned or something? Or did he just get tired of having every attempt at a helpful post get smothered by three times as many anti-posts?
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  #73  
Old 08-29-2020, 11:14 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
He warns newer players to stay away from higher speed drivers and yet he recommends the Escape for beginners.

Oh yeah, DD has the Escape in it's starter pack.

You also seem to have a negative response for anyone with a counter opinion, so I'm guessing you wouldn't mind a flame war.


If you don't want to cycle, then don't, how are people who cycle a problem for you? What's your motive in starting this thread? Are you the new SD86 incarnation?
Nah, not biting.
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  #74  
Old 08-29-2020, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by armiller View Post
Totally unrelated, but I don't really get all the SD hate. And I think it funny that he keeps getting referenced even though I can't remember the last time I saw him post. Is that guy even around anymore? He definitely created a very vocal and dedicated group of haters. Did he get banned or something? Or did he just get tired of having every attempt at a helpful post get smothered by three times as many anti-posts?
He got banned

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  #75  
Old 08-29-2020, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Meillo View Post
Disc minimalism, i.e. bagging few discs in whatever molds, is the philosophy to use each of them for many different throws and techniques. The idea is going lightweight, having easy disc selection, and mainly knowing each single disc well.
Bingo! You described me perfectly lol.

The more often I throw a disc, the better I throw it. Some of my best rounds have been when I just take 3 discs on the course and throw them on every shot (however implausible). Eventually I can just "feel" what the disc is going to do on different angles, heights, BH, FH, etc.

Maybe if I played more than 2-3 times a week I could get the hang of more discs. But keeping the bag light is so very nice.

I usually carry 8-11 discs. But I'd probably play better with fewer.

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  #76  
Old 08-29-2020, 11:41 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
I don't understand what you mean by an organic process, can you explain a little?

Sure. There are a couple of examples in this thread.

Look at autocrossx's post where he says:
Quote:
I read threads here and other places about mold minimalization in the past and it didn't really seem like a concept that was for me. I tried a bunch of different discs, I bought a couple of mystery boxes, and I loved (and still love) trying new stuff. However, as my game has developed a bit, I'm gravitating that way. I carry some one off discs, but I carry a couple of Beasts, I carry a couple of Teebirds, and I carry a couple of Rocs.
Or look at Keller's post where he says:
Quote:
I became a mold minimalist through experience.
Yeah, I tried a lot of different molds, but I also noticed what worked on a more consistent basis and I just started gravitating towards them.
What I mean by "organic" is that you are slowly migrating, in an almost evolutionary process, towards the discs and shots that are working the best for you. Some of your favorite discs beat in to a different flight characteristic, you keep it and buy a freshy, and now you have one mold covering two slots.

This as opposed to buying a fresh DX Roc as a new player and trying to make it both turnover, hyzer flip, roll, etc. because "that's way to do it right" - all while disliking the feel of DX plastic and disliking the feel of the Roc and not being able to throw anything but an anny flex with it. But you keep at it because it will make a better disc golfer.

Those might be considered the opposite ends of the "mold minimalism" approach spectrum. The first organic, the second proscribed.

Mind you, when I got into disc golf I was throwing only a single beat DX Leopard from a starter pack that I found when I cleaned out the garage. That was enough to get me hooked. I even could score decent with it on the local pitch and putt course which was the only one I played. But I wasn't ever going to be able to develop good form with it. Maybe someone younger and svelter and more plastic brained could have done it.

And it's not as if my current bag is a disc-fest. Mostly I use 1 putter, 3-4 p&a discs, 3 mids, and 3-4 fairways. Which ones I use the most will depend on the course I am playing and what it is asking of me. I don't have the arm speed to throw more than a 9 unless it's a Saphire. So fairway drivers are the end of my bag.

And the big thing I'm working is just being able to throw a line consistently. I don't want to have manipulate release angles too much right now, because I can't hit my line often enough yet. That doesn't mean I don't throw the occasional flex or try a hyzer flip when I am feeling frisky, but it does mean that I can't even say a flat shot is my bread and butter yet. I'm more toast, and dry toast at that, at this point.
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  #77  
Old 08-29-2020, 11:45 AM
swhite swhite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meillo View Post
A lot of confusion comes from mixing the number of discs (i.e. size of your bag, i.e. disc minimalism) into the whole mold minimalism and cycling debate. Mold minimalism does not say anything on the number of discs you bag.

Throwing different angles is related to the number of different slots that you have in your bag. A slot usually equals one disc, excluding backups. If you bag 5 Rocs these either fill 5 slots or some of them are backups. If your bag has 20 slots, you'll throw the same angles, no matter if they are in 5 or in 20 molds. (This is what rusch_bag wrote.) If your bag has fewer slots, you'll have to do more with angles. If you talk about angles, molds don't matter.

The number of discs/slots (which nobody talks about) is orthogonal to the number of molds/cycling (everyone talks about). Both aspects have an influence in the topic.

SD has been banned.

He was easy to pick on, and still is, so people continue mock him to score points with likeminded bullies. It all says a lot more about those who attach him.
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  #78  
Old 08-29-2020, 12:19 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
What I mean by "organic" is that you are slowly migrating, in an almost evolutionary process, towards the discs and shots that are working the best for you. Some of your favorite discs beat in to a different flight characteristic, you keep it and buy a freshy, and now you have one mold covering two slots.

This as opposed to buying a fresh DX Roc as a new player and trying to make it both turnover, hyzer flip, roll, etc. because "that's way to do it right" - all while disliking the feel of DX plastic and disliking the feel of the Roc and not being able to throw anything but an anny flex with it. But you keep at it because it will make a better disc golfer.

Those might be considered the opposite ends of the "mold minimalism" approach spectrum. The first organic, the second proscribed.
So my process was NOT organic. A player who was better than me shamed me into taking all the discs out of my bag except for four. I threw one Roc trying to force it to do everything I needed a midrange to do. I forced one Aviar to do everything I needed a putt/approach disc to do. I primarily threw these two discs because the shaming advice I got included discing down. None of that was my idea.

The Roc was especially NOT my idea. The Innova chart said it was for "advanced" players and I certainly was NOT advanced. I had one in my bag but never threw it. I had resisted the advice to throw one for a long time. It worked, though. It was the first of the discs recommended to me that I clicked with and I basically threw it all day.

From there I noticed differences in flight between seasoned and new discs. I figured out where the Cyclone fit into my bag. I figured out that I could use a beat Cyclone to cover the Stingray shots and the Stingray went bye-bye. I figured out that the X-Clone (later Banshee) added shots to my bag I couldn't execute with the Cyclone.

All of that happened in what I guess you would call an organic process. The "proscribed" part that stuck through that process was Aviar/Roc and really...C'mon, it was 1996. Aviar/Roc wasn't rocket science.

Like I've repeated a lot of times, it's a process. You might come up with the idea yourself, someone might suggest it to you or browbeat you into trying it, or you might stumble into it piece by piece without realizing you are doing it. What it is at the end shouldn't be the same as it was in the beginning, though. The process is where the learning happens, and that's always a personal thing. You can't copy my process, we are different. your process has to be your own.

OR...you could not, throw a bunch of molds and follow another process to learn the game from. There is no magic way.

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  #79  
Old 08-29-2020, 01:19 PM
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discerdoo discerdoo is offline
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Originally Posted by swhite View Post
SD has been banned.

He was easy to pick on, and still is, so people continue mock him to score points with likeminded bullies. It all says a lot more about those who attach him.
I never had much interaction with him but couldn't help but notice how thin skinned he was and quick to take offense. The mold minimization topics always drew him in. If he was beligerent enough on the potlicker board to get banned, I don't see his absence as much of a loss.
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  #80  
Old 08-29-2020, 01:19 PM
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SD has been banned.

He was easy to pick on, and still is, so people continue mock him to score points with likeminded bullies. It all says a lot more about those who attach him.
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