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  #11  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:34 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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It sounds like you need discs that are durable and won't change flight rapidly due to hitting rocks/trees etc...

Destroyers would work fine if you find Trespasses too flippy. However, you might look at champion Destroyers over star. They start out beefy, but can develop into long, straight bombers. My only concern about star Destroyers would be that you'd thrash them too quickly playing in rough conditions.

I'd also take a look at the champion Boss or Z Nuke. Both of those are long and will hold stability for a good while. I think the Enforcer would be a decent choice too. Noticeably more beefy than a Trespass, but about the same speed.
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:41 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by PMantle View Post
This is false. Dynamic, Infinite, and Marshall Street all give this mold the same or even slightly more OS numbers as the Destroyer. Now, did Lat 64 actually accomplish this? Probably not. It's also a fact that just about any DD from the Trilogy companies will season faster than a Destroyer. It is the plastic.
I agree. Lucid, opto, gold, whatever plastic wears MUCH faster than champion, Z, or star. I like the feel of some L64 or Dynamic molds, but I don't bag them for the simple reason that the plastic wears too quickly. Also, the flight numbers on the discs are seldom even close to being correct. If you buy a Sheriff or a Trespass sight unseen you really don't know what you're getting until you throw the disc. It could be a glideless meathook or massively flippy.

Trespasses aren't in the same realm as Destroyers for stability. That despite the two discs having almost the same flight numbers. I like the Trespass, but I'd never use it for the same drives I use Destroyers for. The Trespass is more of a flippy open hole bomber, while the Destroyer is better for accuracy or dealing with slightly windy conditions.

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  #13  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:53 AM
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PMantle PMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by Twmccoy View Post
I agree. Lucid, opto, gold, whatever plastic wears MUCH faster than champion, Z, or star. I like the feel of some L64 or Dynamic molds, but I don't bag them for the simple reason that the plastic wears too quickly. Also, the flight numbers on the discs are seldom even close to being correct. If you buy a Sheriff or a Trespass sight unseen you really don't know what you're getting until you throw the disc. It could be a glideless meathook or massively flippy.

Trespasses aren't in the same realm as Destroyers for stability. That despite the two discs having almost the same flight numbers. I like the Trespass, but I'd never use it for the same drives I use Destroyers for. The Trespass is more of a flippy open hole bomber, while the Destroyer is better for accuracy or dealing with slightly windy conditions.
I have given two Defenders to two different forehand friends of mine. I have high hopes that once these two monkeys forehand them for half a season, they are going to be the best Destroyers I've ever owned. lol It's the catch 22 of disc seasoning. They will not get good until used, and I have no use for them when new.

BTW, my two Trespasses are old, and both are fairly stable. I stopped throwing them long ago. I haven't thrown a new one nor have I encountered a flippy one yet. I sometimes like to change things up, so I may put them back in the bag and take out my normal stuff just to revisit. I'd kinda like to build a lineup around those and Wraiths, with a Mamba on one end for tricks and severe downwind, then my beefy Slaidi on the other for headwinds.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:02 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by PMantle View Post
I have given two Defenders to two different forehand friends of mine. I have high hopes that once these two monkeys forehand them for half a season, they are going to be the best Destroyers I've ever owned. lol It's the catch 22 of disc seasoning. They will not get good until used, and I have no use for them when new.

BTW, my two Trespasses are old, and both are fairly stable. I stopped throwing them long ago. I haven't thrown a new one nor have I encountered a flippy one yet. I sometimes like to change things up, so I may put them back in the bag and take out my normal stuff just to revisit. I'd kinda like to build a lineup around those and Wraiths, with a Mamba on one end for tricks and severe downwind, then my beefy Slaidi on the other for headwinds.
I have little experience with the Defender. The 1 I've thrown was new and reminded me of a faster XCal. I know that biofuzion plastic beats in fairly quickly. I could probably have the thing beat flat in no time. It seems to me that a beat Defender would be like a new Sheriff.

I have about 10 Trespasses of varying plastics. I like the Trespass a lot, but am reluctant to bag it over the star Destroyer. For me the Destroyer is simply a more versatile driver and handles hard throws better than the Trespass. The Trespass is glider and longer for me, but also wilder. Bring wind into the mix and the Trespass becomes a hazard to throw if you want anything resembling accuracy.

If I had to pick 1 driver mold to use in rugged conditions I'd probably take the Destroyer. They wear well (don't get beat in too fast) and are overstable enough to handle plenty of arm. That and they're readily available. My next choice would be the Z Nuke or champion Boss.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMantle View Post
This is false. Dynamic, Infinite, and Marshall Street all give this mold the same or even slightly more OS numbers as the Destroyer. Now, did Lat 64 actually accomplish this? Probably not. It's also a fact that just about any DD from the Trilogy companies will season faster than a Destroyer. It is the plastic.
Hard to compare numbers between company man. Compare gateway and innova, flight numbers are not standardized and practically mean little. They supply what the disc "should" do, companies are finally trying to fix this between plastics but it will never be done well. To prove one plastic verse another you will need to compare elasticity and heat resistance in a scientific method. So please if you have that ability then you can prove yourself correct which we would all enjoy the information.

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  #16  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:19 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Originally Posted by tylerc View Post
Hard to compare numbers between company man. Compare gateway and innova, flight numbers are not standardized and practically mean little. They supply what the disc "should" do, companies are finally trying to fix this between plastics but it will never be done well. To prove one plastic verse another you will need to compare elasticity and heat resistance in a scientific method. So please if you have that ability then you can prove yourself correct which we would all enjoy the information.
Innova was the first company to put flight numbers on their discs. Thus, all the other companies who do it are obviously copying Innova. Don't you think these companies ought to at least TRY to standardize the flight numbers? It creates massive confusion when you have DD and Westside putting flight numbers on discs that don't even REMOTELY reflect what the disc does. I mean, saying a King has high speed turn of -1 and a fade of 4 is laughable. Everyone and their brother knows that is wrong. A few Trilogy discs seem to fly true to the numbers, but many of them don't. Their number system is jacked up and needs a pretty serious overhaul. There's no point in even putting numbers on the discs if they're going to be so misleadingly wrong.

BTW, the flight numbers put on discs should reflect the plastic they're made of. If fuzion plastic has different stability than lucid, the numbers should indicate as such. I mean, hell, Innova puts different numbers on discs based on what plastic they're made of.

Oh, and this is a free country. People can compare plastics all they want. Especially if the flight numbers on said plastics are similar. Looking at Destroyer vs. Trespass you'd assume they're very similar drivers. They aren't. DD's plastic wears much faster and the Trespass mold itself is not numbered properly.

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  #17  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:20 AM
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ThomasOrion ThomasOrion is offline
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I feel you on the Trespass - it was sweet, then became unpredictable and flippy.

There are TONS of answers out there for what you should or could throw. I'll say a few I like - Legacy Outlaw for Stable-OS ; MVP Octane Stable-OS-slight turn ;; Axiom Mayhem Stable-mild turn ;; Discmania S-line DDX.

If you want a go-to bomber that isn't going to ever flip too much, Go with an Octane

There are SO many options though - I sometimes carry a couple Outlaws and a Couple Mayhems - it all depends - you gotta make that call yo. But all the discs I listed are great from OS to US but still handles power well
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerc View Post
Hard to compare numbers between company man. Compare gateway and innova, flight numbers are not standardized and practically mean little. They supply what the disc "should" do, companies are finally trying to fix this between plastics but it will never be done well. To prove one plastic verse another you will need to compare elasticity and heat resistance in a scientific method. So please if you have that ability then you can prove yourself correct which we would all enjoy the information.
I agree with the first part of this post. As I said, Lat may not have pulled it off, but they certainly intended to make a disc every bit as OS as a destroyer. I have no idea what the second part means. If you're suggesting that Lucid and Gold line do not season faster than any other premium plastic, then well, you're what I like to call, wrong.

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Old 12-28-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerc View Post
You cant say a trespass is not durable because of the plastic. It is not an overstable disc like a destroyer. The trespass needs very little wear to become an understable disc because that is what it is supposed to be. It is not supposed to be overstable at all. A destroyer "last longer" because the mold is supposed to be more overstable. It will take longer for the PLH of a destroyer to change enough for it to be flippy the very same as it would for a defender.

Compare companies equally.
I agree with you that a fresh-out-of-the-box Trespass is not as overstable as a Destroyer, even though their advertised flight numbers are the same. Flight numbers are general guides, not hardcore Gospel exact figures. This kept me from trying the Trespass for a long time, and when I did try a Trespass, I really liked it, and I'll be bagging it again this Spring.

But I can definitely say that a Trespass is not durable because of the plastic. I can say that Rivers are not durable because of the plastic, and I have several Gold Line Rivers right here to prove it. Actually, it's the plastic that is not durable, and Trilogy discs in premium plastics such as Opto/Lucid and Fuzion/Gold Line break in much more quickly than most other company's discs.

Innova's Champion plastic is virtually indestructible (unless you set it on fire or something ), and Star wears in slowly. So Destroyers in these plastics will keep their original flight patterns far longer than a Trespass (or River, etc.) will.

And that is as 'equal' a comparison of the companies and their plastics as one is gonna get.

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  #20  
Old 12-28-2018, 12:04 PM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMantle View Post
This is false. Dynamic, Infinite, and Marshall Street all give this mold the same or even slightly more OS numbers as the Destroyer. Now, did Lat 64 actually accomplish this? Probably not. It's also a fact that just about any DD from the Trilogy companies will season faster than a Destroyer. It is the plastic.
The plastic is just different IMO. People(companies included) tend to try to compare everything about the plastic types apples to apples.

Fusion is a little less durable to impact damage than star, but Lucid almost the exact same durability. I don’t think any Swedish plastic is as durable a Champ, but I also don’t think that Z or Proton is quite as durable as far as flight affecting damage either.

But most of those plastics also grip better than the majority of Champ discs as well. I love my Champ FBs as many of you know but in the cold wet seasons they feel almost glassy and the grip of the VIP Ahti I have is better.

So yeah, it’s the plastic, but it’s not just a straight answer.

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