#41  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:03 PM
John M. Fretz John M. Fretz is offline
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Originally Posted by NegaSnapples View Post
Started this thread expecting the outcome to be that OP is just bad.

Was not disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
You’re pretty bad at disc golf Blake, let’s be honest. There’s a birdieable fairway on all the wooded holes out there. Just because the course isn’t a gimme and you want to feel better about your game by changing the pars, doesn’t mean it’s a poor design. Further, there aren’t any pros recording their scores out there, so your stats are skewed to what 850-900 rated players record for their scores out there.
There is a lot of mean hostility on this thread. You guys don't really seem like disc golfers. At least, not the cool ones.
What would Steady Ed say?
Don't worry Blake. Just go out and have fun, and you'll be doing much better than those guys!!
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  #42  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:11 PM
MikeK MikeK is offline
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Mr. Fretz, alas, you are completely clueless as to my love of disc golfers. I run a few tournaments a year & serve on the Board of my local club and my regional tournament series. In addition I could have my own thread along the lines of “I am THEY”.

I’m quite fine with Blake changing the pars on this course that I co-designed, but to hear him whine about there being no lines on the woods holes calls for an appropriate response. Blake has a lot to learn about course design and as any experienced designer will tell you, it’s not as easy as it looks. In addition, the park insisted on doing a few holes their way instead of relying on an experienced course designer, so I don’t want to be blamed for these flaws in the design.

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  #43  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:19 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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^^^from an outside perspective MikeK has done more for dg in Louisiana than anyone else I know of.

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  #44  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:31 PM
John M. Fretz John M. Fretz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Mr. Fretz, alas, you are completely clueless as to my love of disc golfers. I run a few tournaments a year & serve on the Board of my local club and my regional tournament series. In addition I could have my own thread along the lines of “I am THEY”.

I’m quite fine with Blake changing the pars on this course that I co-designed, but to hear him whine about there being no lines on the woods holes calls for an appropriate response. Blake has a lot to learn about course design and as any experienced designer will tell you, it’s not as easy as it looks. In addition, the park insisted on doing a few holes their way instead of relying on an experienced course designer, so I don’t want to be blamed for these flaws in the design.
I'm "clueless" because calling someone bad at disc golf isn't cool, and not a very productive way of addressing Blake's issue. Others did it in a much more tactful way. Just because you run some tourneys, serve on the "Board", and are so proud of your course work doesn't make it cool to belittle people. I don't recall Blake saying your design had flaws, or blaming you for anything. He seemed to be trying to clarify how ppl choose what par is good for a given hole.
However, the best reviewer on this site gave a review that claims that course design is pretty mundane, and not very fun. Also, that he wouldn't play it again unless he had to. I tend to believe him, as every review he's ever done on courses I've played are 100% spot on.
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  #45  
Old 03-26-2018, 12:43 PM
John M. Fretz John M. Fretz is offline
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That being said, after looking at the course map, and the hole info for the course. I don't see anywhere that could be called flawed and the pars for holes seem to be accurate. There were even a couple par 4's that would probably be good par 3's too. None of it seemed out of the norm, or unfair. I just thought you and Nega were being pretty harsh to the guy. First time in all the years of being on here that I ever saw someone get called out as "bad".
It don't seem right

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  #46  
Old 03-26-2018, 01:07 PM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisyphus View Post
Been following this thread only to finally realize, wait, I've BEEN there!

Folks note there is one set of tees and "Blue" or "Gold" basket positions.
If this is the case, then the hole info for the course is WRONG, and every round entered for this course that wasn't exclusively all blue or all gold is WRONG, and the discussion we are having about par percentages, tee colors, blah, blah, blah, is completely pointless until we have a long drawn out discussion over how to enter course information on here.

For anyone entering hole info, if you have a course with SINGLE tees, but MULTIPLE pin positions, do NOT assign a second tee column for the other pins just so you can show all the numbers, or because you assigned colors to them at the course. Use the pin A, B, C radio buttons for this. You should only be using a second tee color if you have actual multiple TEES.

The hole info page is not just for display.. It has bearings on how scorebook entries, and downflow statistical information for that course compute. If you have hole info entered in the erroneous manner I described, and the pins at your course are in any sort of mixed configuration, there is no way for anyone to record a proper scorebook entry, (except perhaps manually correct it, which is a pain in the ass). That in turn, mucks up your course statistics.

Stuff like this is precisely why I tell people to take the "advanced stats"on here, with a grain of salt.

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  #47  
Old 03-26-2018, 01:45 PM
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NegaSnapples NegaSnapples is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John M. Fretz View Post
That being said, after looking at the course map, and the hole info for the course. I don't see anywhere that could be called flawed and the pars for holes seem to be accurate. There were even a couple par 4's that would probably be good par 3's too. None of it seemed out of the norm, or unfair. I just thought you and Nega were being pretty harsh to the guy. First time in all the years of being on here that I ever saw someone get called out as "bad".
It don't seem right
It's ok, I was once bad as well. I used to think par on certain courses were too "difficult" or whatever.

Once you get halfway decent, you start to realize that par on basically every disc golf course is soft. I'm sure Steve can back that one up.

It's ok to be "bad", it's sort of dumb to complain about a FTP course and claim there are no lines to the basket, par is wrong, etc.... It's just wrong and spreading misinformation about a course.
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  #48  
Old 03-26-2018, 02:44 PM
Atvizory2000 Atvizory2000 is offline
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Looks like Blake updated the pars for the gold baskets 3/24 and seems like too many par 4's for the distances.
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  #49  
Old 03-26-2018, 04:24 PM
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enragedmullet enragedmullet is offline
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Imho, if you are a recreational or amateur and you're out there just playing casually, change par as you see fit but don't go cushioning yourself, keep it reasonable. For example, in general, if a hole is more than 350 and marked par 3 I'll consider it a 4, just because I'm not that great and for me personally that's a 4. That said, there are some long holes around 400 with no obstacles that, even though I might think if it as a 4, really should be a 3 regardless. I mean with no obstacles you're just chucking it, and that basic ability to launch a disc straight at an unobstructed basket should be the equivalent of bowling with the gutter guards on. If your throw on a hole like that goes so far off that you take a 5, then you need to practice a little bit of control. There are alot of holes I've changed the par on while recording my scores because of this. I'm playing against myself, not anyone else.
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  #50  
Old 03-26-2018, 05:10 PM
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roggenb3 roggenb3 is offline
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