#2841  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:36 AM
MikeK MikeK is offline
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Just can’t admit when you’re wrong.
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  #2842  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:44 AM
MikeK MikeK is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
I’m wondering if you actually read the article.

Prolly not.
Actually I did read it. Shows how Sweden’s economy was not destroyed by overzealous corona-flakes. But hey, you’re entitled to live in fear for the rest of your life.
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  #2843  
Old 10-18-2020, 03:25 PM
DanJon DanJon is offline
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Hey here’s a NYT article. Looks like most of you were dead wrong about Sweden.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...ategy.amp.html

Sweden had one of the highest death rates in the world at one point.
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  #2844  
Old 10-18-2020, 04:10 PM
txmxer txmxer is online now
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Actually I did read it. Shows how Sweden’s economy was not destroyed by overzealous corona-flakes. But hey, you’re entitled to live in fear for the rest of your life.
By allowing people to die.
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  #2845  
Old 10-18-2020, 06:25 PM
DG_player DG_player is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
By allowing people to die.
I think people are really misreading more into the Sweden story than need be. It isn't how best to handle the pandemic, it's how best to handle the pandemic if you don't have the tools to beat it. Look at all of the countries that have managed the virus with hard lockdowns. It creates an unsustainable cycle of lockdown/surge/lockdown. Look at most of Europe. The primary reason for the initial lockdowns was to maintain the integrity of the healthcare system. It's completely backfired. They've gone from overwhelmed, to barely any hospitalizations, and now they're back to overwhelmed. Meanwhile Sweden has chugged along since the initial surge with a manageable amount of hospitalizations.

Without implementing a robust test and trace program hard lockdowns are pointless, and it's becoming increasingly clear that test and trace is harder than everyone makes it sound. France was in great shape, they were down under 10 daily cases per million, now they're almost to 500. Germany who has been one of the models for test and trace, was down under 400 cases per day across the entire country. They still lost control of it even with an army of over 20,000 contact tracers. Meanwhile Biden thinks he's going to fix the U.S. with 100,000 contact tracers. They'd be overwhelmed in a day, it's absolutely ludicrous.*

I don't think anyone thinks the landscape at this point for the U.S. is at all good. However I'd challenge anyone to come up with a national strategy right now that would be in anyway more effective than what Sweden is doing. We are not containing the virus, we are not going to contain the virus, period. At this point we have to figure out the best way to co-exist with it.

* This is in no way an endorsement of Trump's pandemic response

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Old 10-18-2020, 07:36 PM
txmxer txmxer is online now
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Actually I did read it. Shows how Sweden’s economy was not destroyed by overzealous corona-flakes. But hey, you’re entitled to live in fear for the rest of your life.
And...you post like a 12 year old child on the playground. Next you will be talking about how your daddy can beat up someone else's dad.

But, since you are such an avid reader, here's another article for you to consider.

Sweden is moving away from its no-lockdown strategy and preparing strict new rules amid rising coronavirus cases

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  #2847  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:09 PM
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McCready McCready is online now
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There probably is no good solution. The more you open up, the more people get sick and die. The more you lock down, the more you hurt the economy and exacerbate indirect effects like mental health issues and domestic violence, which lead to suffering & death too. So where’s the perfect balance between the two? There probably isn’t one. It’s a virus and we’re at its mercy. We’re all responsible for taking precautions to protect ourselves. Lots could have been done to mitigate the spread, but this fell during an unfortunate period in our history, so it went unchecked. I hope 2021 will be better. The vaccines & therapeutics sure sound promising.

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  #2848  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:12 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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It seems to me that faith in the Swedish Myth requires a couple of steps:

1. Compare Sweden to the handful of advanced nations with worse experiences.
2. Never compare Sweden to the nations that are closest and most similar; nor to the more successful advanced nations.
3. Pretend Sweden took no actions.
4. Dismiss the value of a population which, if asked to do the smart thing, would do so rather than protest for their right to spread the virus.
5. Gloss over the fact that few if any other nations have looked at Sweden's record, and decided to emulate its practices.

None of which seem to be much of a challenge for the IDON'TWANNA!!! crowd.

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  #2849  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:17 PM
txmxer txmxer is online now
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Originally Posted by McCready View Post
There probably is no good solution. The more you open up, the more people get sick and die. The more you lock down, the more you hurt the economy and exacerbate indirect effects like mental health issues and domestic violence, which lead to suffering & death too. So where’s the perfect balance between the two? There probably isn’t one. It’s a virus and we’re at its mercy. We’re all responsible for taking precautions to protect ourselves. Lots could have been done to mitigate the spread, but this fell during an unfortunate period in our history, so it went unchecked. I hope 2021 will be better. The vaccines & therapeutics sure sound promising.
I think that is completely fair to say. We (humanity) have been wandering around in the dark arguing about which direction is correct.

I've said early on that I don't envy anyone responsible for making decisions that effect so many.
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  #2850  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:24 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I'd cite New Zealand, myself. Their national numbers are running better than the the White House. And, I mean, just the White House.
Simply mind-blowing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
.....and whose Prime Minister was just re-elected by record margin. NZ took the virus seriously. Now their lives are pretty much back to normal, and they never had the carnage of, say, Sweden.
I'm not saying New Zealand got lucky. They took all the right precautions, and apparently they don't have nearly as many boneheads who feel that taking precautions infringes on their personal rights, or is a complete waste of time and couldn't be bothered with it.

But they're also a lot more isolated and self-contained than the U.S. and pretty much every European country. I'm not saying people don't travel to and from New Zealand, but I'd be willing to bet there's a lower rate of travel into/out of NZ compared to the U.S. and Europe.

But I could be wrong.

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Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 10-18-2020 at 08:26 PM.
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