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Old 10-18-2020, 08:44 PM
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Very true. One mistake in comparing nations, is the assumption that they were all at the same starting line. How early they were hit, and their population density, affect their subsequent results. (It's why I think Sweden is better compared to its neighbors, than distant countries).

New Zealand has the advantage of being able to really lock down its borders. But they've also been extremely effective at dealing with the infections that did appear. Their leader has asked---and demanded---strict actions, and they've rewarded her.
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  #2852  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:14 PM
MikeK MikeK is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
And...you post like a 12 year old child on the playground. Next you will be talking about how your daddy can beat up someone else's dad.

But, since you are such an avid reader, here's another article for you to consider.

Sweden is moving away from its no-lockdown strategy and preparing strict new rules amid rising coronavirus cases
Looks like you didn’t read your article Tex.


However, unlike in other countries, there will be no fines or legal consequences for people who decide not to follow any new advice. Bitte Brastad, the chief legal officer at Sweden's public health agency, said the rules were "something in between regulations and recommendations."
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
It seems to me that faith in the Swedish Myth requires a couple of steps:

1. Compare Sweden to the handful of advanced nations with worse experiences.
2. Never compare Sweden to the nations that are closest and most similar; nor to the more successful advanced nations.
I just love the every changing mix of comparisons. Oh wait Sweden is doing ok compared to Europe, let's narrow the comparison to a couple of Nordic neighbors. Oh wait, suddenly most of Europe is up the creek without a paddle, let's compare the U.S. to a 5 million population island nation.

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3. Pretend Sweden took no actions.
This has never been an argument. In fact what Sweden initially did, and maintained, actually exceeded what a lot of other European nations did post lockdown when they thought they had things in check.

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4. Dismiss the value of a population which, if asked to do the smart thing, would do so rather than protest for their right to spread the virus.
This is my favorite. Swedes followed the recommendations just because they're such great, wonderful people. It couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that they were being asked to follow pretty reasonable non-intrusive restrictions and not required to lock themselves in their homes for 23 hours a day.

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5. Gloss over the fact that few if any other nations have looked at Sweden's record, and decided to emulate its practices.
This is the most laughable claim. I love the media stories of how "Sweden is adopting the European model" to cover their butts. Let's see, Sweden enacted some measures allowing localities to limit gathering sizes, public venues, and apply reasonable (but unenforceable) restrictions to hospitality services. Meanwhile the European nations experiencing surges are responding with curfews, recommendations regarding gathering with people outside your household, recommending people work from home and avoid pubic transit, and closing bars and restaurants a little earlier. Hmm, that sounds pretty similar to Sweden to me. I'm pretty sure the rest of Europe looks a lot more like Sweden now than Sweden looks like Europe in March and April.

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None of which seem to be much of a challenge for the IDON'TWANNA!!! crowd.
:shrug:
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:17 PM
MikeK MikeK is offline
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Here’s the deal Sauls. You screech about Sweden like everyone in Sweden should be dead by now because they didn’t lock down. And you screech about masks in the USA while ignoring the fact that a huge percentage of new cases are people who have been wearing masks nearly all the time.

You can’t lock down forever. Yes, people are going to catch it and die. So be it.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:25 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Looks like you didn’t read your article Tex.

This is the equivalent of I know you are but what am I.

Do you have an actual cogent thought on this issue? Or a point to your petty childish posts?
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  #2856  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:27 PM
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There probably is no good solution. The more you open up, the more people get sick and die. The more you lock down, the more you hurt the economy and exacerbate indirect effects like mental health issues and domestic violence, which lead to suffering & death too. So where’s the perfect balance between the two? There probably isn’t one. It’s a virus and we’re at its mercy. We’re all responsible for taking precautions to protect ourselves. Lots could have been done to mitigate the spread, but this fell during an unfortunate period in our history, so it went unchecked. I hope 2021 will be better. The vaccines & therapeutics sure sound promising.
This.

The only thing that is gonna protect you and your family is yourself, not your government. I came to the conclusion early on that I was not going to be eating out or doing any number of other enjoyable things for a very, very long time.
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  #2857  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:29 PM
DG_player DG_player is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Here’s the deal Sauls. You screech about Sweden like everyone in Sweden should be dead by now because they didn’t lock down. And you screech about masks in the USA while ignoring the fact that a huge percentage of new cases are people who have been wearing masks nearly all the time.

You can’t lock down forever. Yes, people are going to catch it and die. So be it.
There's a little hole in your argument. They might have been wearing masks, but the person they caught it from probably wasn't...

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  #2858  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:29 PM
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This.

The only thing that is gonna protect you and your family is yourself, not your government. I came to the conclusion early on that I was not going to be eating out or doing any number of other enjoyable things for a very, very long time.
How do you know not to eat out? Who told you that was a bad idea?
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:32 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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There's a little hole in your argument. They might have been wearing masks, but the person they caught it from probably wasn't...
He has no argument. He’s more interested in saying “I told you so” then having a reasoned discussion about what has happened or we should be doing. Facts be damned.
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  #2860  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:35 PM
DG_player DG_player is offline
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How do you know not to eat out? Who told you that was a bad idea?
My limited knowledge of how respiratory diseases spread. The same thing that told me to go in my tool shed and get all my N95s when the government was telling me wearing a mask would make me sick.

Also my wife is a doctor.

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