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  #21  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:30 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddL View Post
Make em shorter, not skinnier.
I say a max amount of chains like 27-28 or So and a minimum for tournaments say 20-24 depending on what PDGA allows now for A tier. This rule limits the baskets that use enough chains a disc even on edge puts end up in the basket and at lower end this prevents the lower single set chain baskets the unmodified Lighting DB-5 baskets to be used for B tier and lower. The other thing Make an exact this is how high the basket cage can be , B tier tournament height on up to be PDGA approved at all, the taller height so that the lower height can't be used, companies can sell upgraded cages for courses that do need the new basket height to run tournaments.

This also allows for a tighter control by PDGA on the baskets themselves but enough freedom to have different set ups as the top need not be band style or older open style and can have several different set ups. If current baskets installed on some courses have too many chains remove the innermost layer. We do not need these baskets with 35-40 chains, I feel that 35 or more chains and baskets get too easy to putt into at circle edge to about 40 feet for even lower level touring pro players and better regional pros.
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Last edited by Casey 1988; 05-17-2020 at 05:34 AM.
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:41 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
i'm not necessarily in favor of changing baskets for the pro tour, it will never affect me and i don't really care

but it's weird that there is not one reasonable argument posted here so far against it, just a lot of non-sequiturs and personal opinions. i'm not $hit-talking those opinions, i'd just like to see a well-stated case against changing baskets for the pro tour.
They've been exhausted in the other 2,914 threads on the subject.

But shouldn't the burden on a radical idea be on the affirmative side? To demonstrate how much putting percentages and lay-up frequencies would change, and what benefits we would derive from that?

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  #23  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:16 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Reasons Not to Change Baskets for Elite Events (since there is no actual data everything posted by either side on the issue is strictly opinion):
1. fewer instances of the disc going into the basket from farther away which is evidently the most marketable aspect of the sport
2. more lay ups and tap ins which are the least marketable aspect of the sport
3. even more advantage to the better putters than they already have
4. adds randomness- smaller baskets will catch less consistently than larger ones (higher ratio of marginally catching exterior locations on the chain assembly to better catching interior spots)

Reasons to have smaller baskets for elite events:
1. Disc golfer inferiority complex over scores relative to par.

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  #24  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:45 AM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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I remember a year or two ago (worlds maybe?) where pros were pissing an moaning about how the new Discraft baskets were spitting out putts and whatnot. Can you even imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth there would be if you did something like this at a pro event? omg
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:05 AM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Reasons Not to Change Baskets for Elite Events (since there is no actual data everything posted by either side on the issue is strictly opinion):
1. fewer instances of the disc going into the basket from farther away which is evidently the most marketable aspect of the sport
2. more lay ups and tap ins which are the least marketable aspect of the sport
3. even more advantage to the better putters than they already have
4. adds randomness- smaller baskets will catch less consistently than larger ones (higher ratio of marginally catching exterior locations on the chain assembly to better catching interior spots)

Reasons to have smaller baskets for elite events:
1. Disc golfer inferiority complex over scores relative to par.

thanks! that's what i was looking for here, esp. #1 & 2
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  #26  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:44 AM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
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Nothing changes with smaller or harder baskets. The best putters will still be the best putters. Less birdies will be made and scores will go up. Doesn't sound like any kind of improvement to me, in fact it sounds way more boring.

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  #27  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:51 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Reasons Not to Change Baskets for Elite Events (since there is no actual data everything posted by either side on the issue is strictly opinion):
1. fewer instances of the disc going into the basket from farther away which is evidently the most marketable aspect of the sport
2. more lay ups and tap ins which are the least marketable aspect of the sport
3. even more advantage to the better putters than they already have
4. adds randomness- smaller baskets will catch less consistently than larger ones (higher ratio of marginally catching exterior locations on the chain assembly to better catching interior spots)

Reasons to have smaller baskets for elite events:
1. Disc golfer inferiority complex over scores relative to par.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
thanks! that's what i was looking for here, esp. #1 & 2
biscoe's last point is the heart of the matter IMO. The whole driver of the issue is comparing ball golf scores to disc golf scores relative to par and trying to make disc golf score like ball golf. The thing that has been identified as a huge factor in why ball golf has higher scores is how much more difficult putting is generally in ball golf VS disc golf. All the smaller basket thing is designed to do is make scores go up.

If you do that, you have to ask what we give up in the process and again biscoe lays that out. Long runs that end up in the basket will be greatly reduced. Players with a much lower chance of making those long runs are not just going to continue to flail away at a low % shot, they are going to lay up. The golf gets more boring and mundane.

The other "fix to something that's not broken" that comes out of this conversation is Par 2; that being the argument that some holes in disc golf are so easy for top players that they shouldn't count as a way to get under par. You can't eliminate those holes because we don't have Country Clubs (with County Club $) hosting these events and you can't redesign courses in public parks to get rid of them, so you just accept that they are too easy and call them Par 2 in order to keep the scoring down.

Or...we could just let disc golf be disc golf and quit trying to make it ball golf.


Last edited by Three Putt; 08-20-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:55 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Reasons to have smaller baskets for elite events:
1. Disc golfer inferiority complex over scores relative to par.
2. or in relation to golf.

(Particularly, the notion that putting from a given distance should be as difficult)
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  #29  
Old 05-17-2020, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
I apologize, sir. I know my place. You are the opinion authority. I understand.IDGAF
Lol it was way to late for me to be posting. Apologies, i could have written that post better.

The baskets now catch putts that would miss the pole. Seems flawed.

Last edited by Emoney; 05-17-2020 at 11:49 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-17-2020, 11:55 AM
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Everyone is using the current "bullseye" style baskets as reference why they wouldnt work.

Has anyone tried to make a smaller permanent basket that catches most of the putts that would hit the pole?(even current baskets dont do this 100% of the time)
I dont see alot of ppl laying up, if the baskets were smaller, you wouldnt need to put them right next to a cliff or water. You could probably get rid of the elevated baskets too.

The top pros in our sport would adjust and not lay up, unless they were winning by enough....and they do that now. The pros are there to win, not play for 5th place.

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