#21  
Old 09-18-2020, 01:25 PM
Melonhusk Melonhusk is offline
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Alright finally got a couple chances to get out to the field and do some more work, and I think I'm finally starting to figure out how to step towards the target, and not diagonally, as my legs so badly want to do. I'm finding that this combined with keeping my head turned back longer makes everything feel extremely different, sort of like throwing backwards. Feeling very uncoordinated but here's some video.





I was focusing mainly on keeping my head turned back following the disc until I felt my heel plant, and also on getting more of a feeling of "cocking" my hips.

I think the main problem I can self-diagnose right now is that I'm not really planting confidently, so my front knee bends quite a bit before it figures out it's time to brace, and I think sometimes my weight is not off my rear leg by the time my front leg gets weight on it.

I'm also wondering if maybe I'm not really bringing the disc in close enough to my chest? It seems like the disc never really winds up being that close to my body, though every time I tried to correct this my throw went waayyyyy off to the right.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:54 PM
Melonhusk Melonhusk is offline
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So I went out today again for a bit. I tweaked my back yesterday so I wasn't sure how much throwing I'd be able to do but I wanted to feel it out with some super easy throws, maybe take the opportunity to try to relax a bit more and feel out a smoother throw in general. It felt ok so I ramped up the pace a bit, but trying to keep the whole x step and reachback very relaxed, and focus my only real effort into the swing.



I think I might have made some improvements? The whole session I was tending to round a bit, just because I was trying to be so relaxed I had to remind myself to still bring my elbow forward. Distance was a bit less than my typical, but still pretty decent for me considering how easy the best throws felt. Anyway, what do you all think?
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2020, 02:20 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Yeah that looks a lot better. Looks like you kind of stop turning back early and not completing the backswing. I think in door frame drill you can step your rear foot closer to target a few inches and get turned further back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvGudQYfjD8#t=62s
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  #24  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:24 AM
Melonhusk Melonhusk is offline
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Awesome, yeah it definitely felt easier. The turn back thing I'm not 100% but I think could be a product of my friend filming from a little behind me? It's not really an ideal angle; didn't think I'd be throwing so I didn't bring the tripod. But you may have noticed that and still meant it, and the door frame drill is always worth a revisit anyway. Thanks as always! I'll have to get out and film more once my back is in better shape.
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:49 PM
Melonhusk Melonhusk is offline
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Haven't been able to get out and film in a while, but I was able to work on some stuff today. I've been watching a lot of Bradley Walker videos recently, and he made some things click in my mind that I was trying to put into action - one being changing my grip so most of the pressure is between the pointer and thumb (I use a standard power grip), and the other being making sure the "trailing side" was taking a more active role (like Drew in this video):



Anyway, here's some video. This was earlier, and they felt ok, distance was meh but the throws felt smooth and easy.







As the titles indicate I realized halfway through I was hiking my shoulder up, so for the rest of the session after these I tried to focus on using my lats and getting my shoulder more relaxed and low. In feeling this out I had a few that came out with a ton of wobble, enough that they throllered into the headwind. Here's a vid of one, it's certainly not the prettiest throw but I guess I'm wondering what could have caused the OAT?



I had one throw that I think made some progress towards what I was trying to do: the video below. It felt super quick out of my hand, made a different sound traveling through the air and held a line that disc usually doesn't for me.



I'm not sure if I'm feeling any of the right things - hitting (or even half hitting), the hammer throw, all the stuff I read about - but I'd like to get there! The last month or so has felt like just a million ways to plateau at ~400' absolute max golf line; I keep changing stuff and I feel like at least visually my throws are getting more the right "look" to them (finishing upright, not blowing past my plant etc.) but I feel like getting my arm levers working correctly is a big piece I'm not quite there with. Any help/thoughts much appreciated as always!
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  #26  
Old 10-19-2020, 10:00 PM
Melonhusk Melonhusk is offline
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Thanks to all the great help I've gotten in this thread and just through reading elsewhere in this forum I've finally gotten the distance and accuracy I was looking for, throwing straight and topping out at 450. But then I realized whatever I was now doing was causing my rotator cuff to bother me nonstop, and just creating tension all throughout my upper right side. So I'm taking a step back and trying to figure out a better way forward.

The key to my jump in distance was no question at least the mental cue of engaging my lats. I was focusing on relaxing my deltoids and tensing my lats at the top of the backswing, and I felt an unbelievable sense of rubber band tension leverage when I did it right, the disc just exploding out of my hand. Here's a vid from the day I made a big jump forward, maxing out around 430.



As you'll probably notice, though I may have been using the lats, I still have a little bit of that hunched shoulder, so I was still strong-arming, which partially explains the shoulder pain. The other part of the explanation is that to engage my lats I was actively flexing them, which was definitely effective in adding some distance but was creating a ton of tension in the region of my neck, collarbone, upper pec, rotator cuff, etc, just really didn't feel good after a couple days of it.

So on to today, when I decided to ditch that approach and try to just do anything that would make my right shoulder be no higher than my left. I had been working through this:



to try to help, and thought I had a solid idea of what it should feel like. I also incorporated a little forward pump to help momentum and not turning my shoulders back too early, and was focusing on consciously "shifting from behind" more. Here are a few videos from today:





Distance was way down, topping out like 370, but that's alright. I can tell that I didn't succeed in throwing with a relaxed shoulder, and I'm pretty baffled as to how to do it now. Seems like no matter what I focus on that hunched shoulder is so deeply ingrained. Are there any good mental cues to avoid it? Was there some part of what I was doing before, that conscious lat activation, that was good? Is pulling my arm through with lat tension while keeping my upper shoulder relaxed the idea, and I just wasn't executing it well, or is there something I'm missing?
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  #27  
Old 10-20-2020, 02:31 AM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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It looks pretty good, you could try to fix your timing by having the disc over your left leg instead behind your body during the x-step.
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  #28  
Old 10-20-2020, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhusk View Post
Distance was way down, topping out like 370, but that's alright. I can tell that I didn't succeed in throwing with a relaxed shoulder, and I'm pretty baffled as to how to do it now. Seems like no matter what I focus on that hunched shoulder is so deeply ingrained. Are there any good mental cues to avoid it? Was there some part of what I was doing before, that conscious lat activation, that was good? Is pulling my arm through with lat tension while keeping my upper shoulder relaxed the idea, and I just wasn't executing it well, or is there something I'm missing?
Have you tried getting the disc out in front of you during your x-step? You mentioned you added a pump but it's barely noticeable and I wonder if adding something like McBeth or Schultz could help you keep that front shoulder down if you visualize it as a low back-swing rather than a reach back.

That said, it would be a fairly drastic change from what you're doing now so it may add too much in but maybe just trying to feel that back swing with your shoulder as the point of a pendulum could help. Your reach back right now is actually downward and ends below your pull through height. At least for me, visualizing and feeling a lower back "swing" that sets up the pendulum feeling has better results.

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Old 10-20-2020, 04:14 AM
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1. Backswing transition looks weird, like you push the disc back and down and pull it off the ground. Your shoulder goes from internally rotated to external rotated in transition from backswing to forward swing/power pocket, should be the opposite direction if it changes, or keep it internally rotated swinging into power pocket.

2. Stance looks too closed, striding across the door frame/rear foot. Should be more straight line force striding hips away from door frame.



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  #30  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:21 AM
Melonhusk Melonhusk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyC View Post
It looks pretty good, you could try to fix your timing by having the disc over your left leg instead behind your body during the x-step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjdepue View Post
Have you tried getting the disc out in front of you during your x-step? You mentioned you added a pump but it's barely noticeable and I wonder if adding something like McBeth or Schultz could help you keep that front shoulder down if you visualize it as a low back-swing rather than a reach back.

That said, it would be a fairly drastic change from what you're doing now so it may add too much in but maybe just trying to feel that back swing with your shoulder as the point of a pendulum could help. Your reach back right now is actually downward and ends below your pull through height. At least for me, visualizing and feeling a lower back "swing" that sets up the pendulum feeling has better results.
Haha I know I realized that about my "pump"; in my mind I was doing a sort of McBeth-esque thing but seeing it on film for the first time it's barely there. I do think even the small amount I'm doing has helped my x-step pacing, but things have only gone from weird to passable. I'll definitely try the left leg thing; thinking about that may help me not turn back as early! And the shoulder pendulum idea should help too; you're spot on mjdepue that I sort of awkwardly push the disc too far down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
1. Backswing transition looks weird, like you push the disc back and down and pull it off the ground. Your shoulder goes from internally rotated to external rotated in transition from backswing to forward swing/power pocket, should be the opposite direction if it changes, or keep it internally rotated swinging into power pocket.

2. Stance looks too closed, striding across the door frame/rear foot. Should be more straight line force striding hips away from door frame.



Starting with your second point, do you mean that my front foot is angled too far back, or that I'm planting my right leg too far to the left (or both)? I'll definitely work through the second and third door frame vids, I'll have to feel out what you mean!

I'm really interested in your first point, because I don't really understand it and that probably means it's incredibly important. I'm not versed in biomechanics to where I feel like I'm solid on what external vs internal rotation looks like in all possible positions of the arm, but I've been trying to figure it out with some googling of diagrams.

So it does look to me like this:



and this:



are internally rotated, right? Is that where you see I go to external rotation, which I'm seeing as this:



Or is it somewhere else? And also would you mind going into the significance of the different shoulder orientations?

Thanks so much for all the quick and astute advice guys! Wish I wasn't at work.
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