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View Poll Results: In tournament rounds, what percentage of disc golfers do you think are likely to chea
0-1% - It's not something you worry about. 34 17.26%
2-10% - People cheat but we usually know who they are. 112 56.85%
11-30% - Odds are someone on my card will try to cheat. 20 10.15%
31-60% - About half of the people cheat. Some out of ignorance, some deliberately. 17 8.63%
61-90% - The majority of people cheat, knowingly or otherwise. 8 4.06%
91%+ - Virtually everyone cheats. 6 3.05%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 12-08-2016, 03:22 PM
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roggenb3 roggenb3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
I have toyed with the idea that in any of my tournaments I will have a marshall/scorekeeper accompany the women's groups.
That would probably be the last tournament of yours any women show up to.

Not saying your point isn't valid, but I can't imagine basically telling the women they need a babysitter would go over too well.
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  #102  
Old 12-08-2016, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
I wonder about gender differences in cheating and the attitudes toward it. I'll explain. I was at a tournament in my area 3 years ago and watched a group of INT Women tee off. Three of them went out of bounds. Each one of them threw from out of bounds. This was in plain sight of the TD and many other players. I asked the TD about it later and his response was that because those were the only women in the tournament, it didn't matter. I.e., they were only playing each other so if they let each other cheat, he didn't care.

Then, recently, I talked to a woman who plays locally. She stopped playing in tournaments because, in her words, "all the women cheat" and she was sick of it. We discussed the OB incident I described and she also stated that the women that she has played with have all underreported scores in every tournament that she has been in, and that the underreporting wasn't even close, like multiple strokes per hole, no penalty strokes and throwing from OB as if it didn't exist.

Finally, in a tournament I ran back in August, only one female player showed up. She was about 12 years old. I placed her in a group of Adv. Masters that I knew well (and who were all parents) and after the round, one of the men told me that the girl, who was the only person in her division, constantly underreported her scores. On one particular hole, he stated that she claimed to have shot a 4 (a 550', wooded hole listed as a par 4) in which he had counted 8 throws. I have toyed with the idea that in any of my tournaments I will have a marshall/scorekeeper accompany the women's groups.
Kids tend to cheat, has nothing to do with their sex. I'm guessing, knowing Masters in general, that they set her on a better pathway.

As to the women, I've watched enough of the women's video to know that they are as meticulous about play as the men are. That means that some things happen, but they are watching and generally do pretty well, I'm guessing that women cheat about the same as men do. Given the general nature of this discussion, it's probably higher than it should be.
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  #103  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:00 PM
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Blatant outright cheating will occur in the lower levels far more often than in the higher levels for both men and women. I play men's int and sometimes adv and everyone who I play with is counting strokes and making sure about In/out of bounds but I rarely play c tiers so my competition are knowledgeable and serious....something that isn't always present in local c tiers.
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  #104  
Old 12-09-2016, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by roggenb3 View Post
That would probably be the last tournament of yours any women show up to.

Not saying your point isn't valid, but I can't imagine basically telling the women they need a babysitter would go over too well.
If it were those same 4 women Doofenshmirtz mentioned, I wouldn't be worried about their return.
Although the TD said "they were only playing against each other" they are also playing against the course and this would directly affect ratings (if they were PDGA members and the event was sanctioned). I find myself in tournaments where the MPM division is only 3-4 players but I would never accept the others asking to blatantly disregard rules just because we are only playing against one another.
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  #105  
Old 12-09-2016, 08:15 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainAnhyzer View Post
If it were those same 4 women, I wouldn't be worried about their return. Although the TD said "they were only playing against each other" they are also playing against the course and this would directly affect ratings (if they were PDGA members and the event was sanctioned). I find myself in tournaments where the MPM division is only 3-4 players but I would never accept the others asking to blatantly disregard rules just because we are only playing against one another.
To the bolded, I doubt they'd impact ratings even if they were members and the event was sanctioned. Primarily because they probably aren't rated high enough to be propagators.

Having said that, I don't think I'd abide that sort of behavior if I were the TD. I don't really care if I might alienate them by calling them out. If they're not going to play by or respect the rules of play, I'd rather not have them at my events anyway...regardless of gender.

Last edited by JC17393; 12-09-2016 at 08:17 AM.
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  #106  
Old 12-09-2016, 08:18 AM
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To the bolded, I doubt they'd impact ratings even if they were members and the event was sanctioned. Primarily because they probably aren't rated high enough to be propagators.
True. But it would skew their own ratings.

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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Having said that, I don't think I'd abide that sort of behavior if I were the TD. I don't really care if I might alienate them by calling them out. If they're not going to play by or respect the rules of play, I'd rather not have them at my events anyway...regardless of gender.
This.
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