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  #71  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:31 AM
Mocheez Mocheez is online now
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I forgot Prime Discs and a CD Brokerage that he later sold to three employees.
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  #72  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:41 AM
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VictorB VictorB is offline
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Originally Posted by Mocheez View Post
Marshall Street
Maple Hill Disc Golf / Pro Shop
I might be remembering incorrectly, but Dodge hasn't run or had any part of MS for quite a while right? But now that you mention it, I do remember he at least helped establish it, but thought he moved on. Or was that Prime discs?

Did he design Maple Hill?
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  #73  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:47 AM
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Discette Discette is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
I truly don't know what the fascination with video coverage is for tournament directors.

A very popular disc golf video channel approached me once about filming an event I was running. Nobody bid, but Dickerson and Johansen were playing, so there was draw there.


Someone truly explain what an event gets out of videoing it.

Do sponsors care that their players are filmed? Absolutely. Should players be rewarded for being filmed by their sponsor? Absolutely. Will anyone ever sponsor an event in the future because last year's event got 25K views on youtube? TBD.
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Not to be a dick, honestly, but if in 2019 you don't understand the power of media (and social media) can - it's not the rest of us who are behind.

If you don't understand how to leverage 25k views into sponsorship for your next year's event, then that's an area you have to work on in your TD "game". I was able to do it as a first-time TD, and you have far more experience than I do, and I'm sure deeper relationships in your local area than I do.
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Absolutely, the situations are different, but the overarching point is that in this sport more than others there is little to no barrier to entry for a tournament to develop a media plan and pop up on the international radar in short order.

Now...obviously if you have exceptional elements to your event (a tournament that is well run, an epic course, etc.) you will climb faster than others, I'm not suggesting it's a miracle pill or anything.

...I'm just surprised that the guy who ran Worlds in 2012, still 7 years later doesn't understand the power of media at a local and regional level. I'm really not trying to be an ass, it's just so common sense to me.

Maybe I should think about producing a series for Ultiworld that helps TD's learn new tools to help them? I'm sure there are pieces that Robert can contribute to as well as many other quality TD's out there.

MTL also ran 2018 Am Worlds in Charlotte, so he is a top notch TD that doesn't need a media boost to host successful events. However, Robert is part of the old volunteer guard. The new school of TD's are more likely to be businessmen rather than club volunteers. These new businessman TD's are hustling out there and experienced TD's should be prepared to learn some new skills.


Jamie thinks every TD can grow a tournament by adding media coverage even if it is just a local or regional event. I hope Jamie will do a segment explaining how a club or TD can grow sponsorship and participation by using video coverage as a tool.... without being so surprised that older TD's don't have this skill set yet.


I think sometimes the popularity of an event can be serendipitous. If you have a crew filming and they just happen to catch an ace, that could be enough media exposure to get an event noticed. I think Rocky Mountain Championships got on the national radar because Christian Dietrich had an Ace that was featured on ESPN (filmed by CCDG). Would we have heard as much about this event without the ace on ESPN?

Sometimes success comes from being on the right card at the right time. Philo Albatross anyone?

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  #74  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:51 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post

...I'm just surprised that the guy who ran Worlds in 2012, still 7 years later doesn't understand the power of media at a local and regional level. I'm really not trying to be an ass, it's just so common sense to me.

Maybe I should think about producing a series for Ultiworld that helps TD's learn new tools to help them? I'm sure there are pieces that Robert can contribute to as well as many other quality TD's out there.
I absolutely did not run worlds in 2012. I wasn't even on that event staff.

And the example I was talking about was NOT the worlds I ran in 2018, rather my B Tier.
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  #75  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:52 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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I wouldn’t bet against Dodge in the long run though
Marshal Street, Prime Discs and Vibram might have different opinions.

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  #76  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:58 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by VictorB View Post
I might be remembering incorrectly, but Dodge hasn't run or had any part of MS for quite a while right? But now that you mention it, I do remember he at least helped establish it, but thought he moved on. Or was that Prime discs?

Did he design Maple Hill?
Marshall Street was and still is his cousin Jason's business, but I expect that Steve's influence is partly responsible for the Pyramids pro shop expanding into the online game as Marshall Street. They did have a partnership in creating the Marshall Street Championships that eventually evolved into the Vibram/MVP/Maple Hill Open after a split between the cousins. However, knowing both of them, the blame for the split was definitely on both sides (two strong personalities with different visions for their businesses/events). Steve wanted PDGA, Jason didn't...hence the unsanctioned MSDGC became PDGA NT Vibram Open.

I believe Steve did have a primary hand in designing Maple Hill, with assistance from Jason and another cousin Tom (the guy who owns the property). Actually, it was a significant re-design as a course existed there before Steve got involved, but little of that original design can be found in the current one (the flow of the course was reversed...original hole 18 finished under the windmill that sits between the current hole one tees).
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  #77  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:06 AM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Wow!

I'm almost 60, and if I can figure out the value of social media and video coverage, then pretty much anyone who isn't brain dead should be able to. Heck, 80 year old politicians have figured this out. Even if I don't value it, I should be able to figure out that others do.

Cookies, sorry, while I can understand the spoiled, entitled mentality that exists in some folks, I can also understand that being a businessperson and shoving that in potential customer's faces is probably gonna be bad for business. Fighting with your customers is dumb, even if you're correct. And even if I feel that Steve has a point, making the black and white argument that one side or the other is the only "right" is probably a mistake.

I value Jomez, CCDG, and smash, for their production skills. I value Steve for his tour management and marketing. I'm not gonna crucify him for those things he's done wrong. I'd rather look at the positives and encourage him to fix the things he's done wrong. I understand that honey gets more flies than vinegar.

Making the blanket argument that because I don't value something, therefore that something has no value, denotes a lack of vision and means that Darth gets to use the force to cut off my air supply. QED.

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Last edited by lyleoross; 04-05-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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  #78  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:17 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Our sport has long been obsessed with this idea that getting it on TV is the way the sport grows. You often see these posts about cornhole, poker and other things like that "how in the world is that on TV but disc golf is not?"

The answer is people play those things and not disc golf. Most people simply will not watch a sport if they don't understand how it's played.

Our focus big picture has got to be getting more courses, more people and more kids, specifically. Then the media growth happens organically.

And by the way, if we are bragging about 25K viewers of a video, that's all you need to know about where our sport is in terms of national attention.

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  #79  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:29 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
...Our focus big picture has got to be getting more courses, more people and more kids, specifically. Then the media growth happens organically....
The only growth that happens without effort is weeds. In this world, nothing good happens without someone putting a lot of effort toward making it happen.

Let's at least avoid discouraging - or trying to redirect - those who are making the effort.

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  #80  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:30 AM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discette View Post
MTL also ran 2018 Am Worlds in Charlotte, so he is a top notch TD that doesn't need a media boost to host successful events. However, Robert is part of the old volunteer guard. The new school of TD's are more likely to be businessmen rather than club volunteers. These new businessman TD's are hustling out there and experienced TD's should be prepared to learn some new skills.


Jamie thinks every TD can grow a tournament by adding media coverage even if it is just a local or regional event. I hope Jamie will do a segment explaining how a club or TD can grow sponsorship and participation by using video coverage as a tool.... without being so surprised that older TD's don't have this skill set yet.


I think sometimes the popularity of an event can be serendipitous. If you have a crew filming and they just happen to catch an ace, that could be enough media exposure to get an event noticed. I think Rocky Mountain Championships got on the national radar because Christian Dietrich had an Ace that was featured on ESPN (filmed by CCDG). Would we have heard as much about this event without the ace on ESPN?

Sometimes success comes from being on the right card at the right time. Philo Albatross anyone?
Some observations. I only know about Am Worlds cause it's a long running event. I only know MTL ran it because he posted that here on social media. While the 600 to 1000 folks who registered and played know a good bit, I'm not sure how wide the audience was?

On the other hand, I know a ton about a B tier run in Jonesboro. The 60,000 or so disc and equipment purchasing fans who watched the event know a bunch about the event. Did you know that Spartan Mowers sponsored the event? I know a ton about the holes and the course. I have images of Jerm, JohnE, and others playing, including ridiculous Simon shots. I have nothing like that from Am Worlds. I also know that Ferris State kicked it at the CWS, and other things about that event. Oh Terry, you rascal you.

None of those things were spectacular. They were just easily accessed on a down day at work. I have to admit, I'm on Jamie's side on this one.

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