#151  
Old 11-09-2018, 12:50 PM
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PMantle PMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Have I not made my meaning plain at this point? They are not right as in they are not correct, they are incorrect, they are mistaken, they are wrong. I understand the basis of the argument, but it is still not a winning one.

By all means, if you think that the PDGA Tour Manager or the competition committee would give their blessing to TDs allowing someone to act as a designated guardian to a junior player per 1.13 while also participating in the group as a tournament player, bring it up to them and see what they say.
Well, there's nothing prohibiting it so I don't see why not.
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  #152  
Old 11-09-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PMantle View Post
Well, there's nothing prohibiting it so I don't see why not.
This is always a tough argument in any game or sport. Rules are designed to be a set of guidelines that are interpreted for situation. There is no possible way to design a set of rule to cover every single action, that is possible in a disc golf event. Logic, common sense and the application of the rules written are to be interpreted by the card, or by the TD. In this case the very basic concept of the card's ability to make decisions is removed. Not sure how it can be seen from a different perspective.

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  #153  
Old 11-09-2018, 07:19 PM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Originally Posted by PMantle View Post
Well, there's nothing prohibiting it so I don't see why not.
Well...I tell ya what. Go TD a tourney and allow it all you want. There's nothing stopping you from your own masochism. Better yet, go play in a tourney and bring your >13 progeny and demand you be placed on the same card as your kiddo. You'll be besties with the TD by the end of the tourney. I promise.
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  #154  
Old 11-09-2018, 07:26 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Uhhh...yeah no kidding. While I love having juniors at a league or tourney they are a royal PITA to manage. Exactly zero regulars want to have them on their card because like it or not kiddos can be a giant distraction. To me, regardless of whether its in the rules or not having a parent/guardian with the wee ones is just, I donno, logical and something a TD has every right and the power to require. Yeah...why in the world would anyone want to exploit that loop hole is beyond me.
I was with a junior my brother in the 2000's who was more disciplined then the oldest decision that just wanted to play the tournaments the way they had in the 1980's super super casual like and by talking to each other before hand and still giving themselves the 3 meter rule after it was gone in 2006 and the particular tournament did not have it. If the Senior Grand Masters at the time had run tournament in my area most of them would have had most of Advanced Am group leave and not come back to play if they mentioned the 3 meter rule was in affect in the tournament.

In South Dakota the older people born in the 1930's to 1/3 to half of the 1940's early baby boomers want to do things the way they have always been done even if that does not work anymore or can't work for what they are doing. They are stubborn on change, as they made change in their day and do not want to see more change to what they already did.
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  #155  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:29 PM
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Dude, for a bot, you got a strange programmer.
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  #156  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:44 AM
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Skynet is still under control.

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  #157  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:39 AM
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Casey has a point.
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  #158  
Old 11-10-2018, 07:40 AM
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Perhaps, and perhaps he could rephrase it so more of us would know what it is.

I got stuck on the "3-meter rule" and baby boomers born in the 1930s. Which hindered my search for a connection to juniors playing, let alone whether their chaperones could or should play.

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  #159  
Old 11-10-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
Uhhh...yeah no kidding. While I love having juniors at a league or tourney they are a royal PITA to manage. Exactly zero regulars want to have them on their card because like it or not kiddos can be a giant distraction. To me, regardless of whether its in the rules or not having a parent/guardian with the wee ones is just, I donno, logical and something a TD has every right and the power to require. Yeah...why in the world would anyone want to exploit that loop hole is beyond me.
All of which brings to mind something of a dilemma. If we want juniors to play---for the future of the sport, or just because we're glad to give them a chance---they're unlikely to register in numbers that can be sorted into separate cards. They're often going to be on a mixed card with somebody.

Prior to the chaperone rule, that might be a playing parent. Which may or may not be a problem; as much for other members of that parent's division as anything else. Otherwise, I saw it tending to be a women's division, if available, or the oldest amateur division, getting stuck as babysitters.

One benefit of non-playing chaperones should be, while those other players may still get grouped with juniors, with some distraction, they won't also be babysitting or teaching or dealing with otherwise unsupervised kids.

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  #160  
Old 11-10-2018, 02:13 PM
Karl Karl is offline
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Disc golf as a sport is rather unique in that we who aren't "world class" can still play in an official tournament setting with those who are. If doing so, we are expected to "play by the rules" to the 'letter of the law' just as they (the "wc'ers) are. And if, for any reason(s) we aren't able to / can't, we shouldn't...either play or be allowed to play (in that event). Just because we CAN, doesn't mean we have the right to 'abuse' the situation.
[Attn: O.F. hat on]
Now I'm not saying that the Jrs. (in the aforementioned situation) "aren't good enough", "are too slow", etc. to play because I have no idea one way or the other (wasn't there, don't know them), BUT there is a time and place for everything.
- a 5-somes event where the jrs are in "only" a 4-some
- non-sanctioned play
- Jr-only events
- league events
- a 4-some event where the jrs are in "only" a 3-some
- where the chaperones are NOT playing
- and I'm sure I've missed a bunch
All of these will provide the Jr a great learning experience - and not at the expense of the rest of the field.
Since it is a RARE case where a parent will willingly admit THEIR child "might be 'not good enough'", "is rather slow in their playing", etc., it really IS up to the TD to "heavily suggest" (read: enact) ANYTHING to mitigate the "slow play" situations...whatever the cause may be.
[Attn: O.F. hat off]

Doof,
I applaud that you're thinking of "ways" to rectify this type of situation, but your suggested way IMO is sort of using like a howitzer to shoot a deer (you don't need all that firepower). Less intrusive ways (via forethought) probably wins this war.
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