#741  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:53 PM
broomerang broomerang is offline
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Originally Posted by riltim View Post
It's also been said about Innova and their inconsistent plastic blends, that they are at the mercy of their suppliers. A company pulling in $52.5 million a year would be have plastic suppliers beating their door down to help them produce a consistent product.
I don't know about Innova's ability to buy "quality" plastic. I don't even know anything about plastic. I do know that 52.5 million in revenue is very very little compared to other lines of manufacturing.

The 1000th ranked company by Fortune made 1.8 Billion in revenue last year. Obviously no one expected a disc golf company to be on this list but you can see that apart from the top dawgs Walmart (500 Billion... ) the bottom of the list 900-1000 are much closer together. You could extrapolate that by the time you got down to 52.5 million there would be thousands of companies of a similar size, probably tens of thousands. http://fortune.com/fortune500/list

Infinite discs posted a blog awhile back that said they sold 10 times as many discs in 2016 as they did when they first started. In that blog they posted a percentage of their sales by brand. It appears to be at least a fairly good gauge of market share.

https://infinitediscs.com/blog/disc-...ends-by-brand/

They didn't post how many discs they sold or what the average price was. Can't blame them for that. Same reason the disc golf companies aren't posting their earnings online.

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  #742  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:59 PM
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Innova dominating disc golf specialty stores isn't even the whole story. There are lots of stores that only carry Innova (Dicks, Walmart, Big-5 etc).
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  #743  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:07 PM
riltim riltim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broomerang View Post
I don't know about Innova's ability to buy "quality" plastic. I don't even know anything about plastic. I do know that 52.5 million in revenue is very very little compared to other lines of manufacturing.

The 1000th ranked company by Fortune made 1.8 Billion in revenue last year. Obviously no one expected a disc golf company to be on this list but you can see that apart from the top dawgs Walmart (500 Billion... ) the bottom of the list 900-1000 are much closer together. You could extrapolate that by the time you got down to 52.5 million there would be thousands of companies of a similar size, probably tens of thousands. http://fortune.com/fortune500/list

Infinite discs posted a blog awhile back that said they sold 10 times as many discs in 2016 as they did when they first started. In that blog they posted a percentage of their sales by brand. It appears to be at least a fairly good gauge of market share.

https://infinitediscs.com/blog/disc-...ends-by-brand/

They didn't post how many discs they sold or what the average price was. Can't blame them for that. Same reason the disc golf companies aren't posting their earnings online.

Speculate away!
I'm guessing you don't have much experience in manufacturing. I have vendors fighting tooth and nail to get $100k worth of annual sales out of us. If you're buying $2-3 million dollars worth of plastic pellets annually from someone they're going to give you everything you want and then some

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  #744  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:11 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is online now
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Originally Posted by riltim View Post
They'd have to sell 1,430 discs a day at $10 a piece or 33 baskets a day at $425.
Think about all the AM tourneys around the country that give out plastic. I'd have to imagine they have at least a couple thousand discs for tourneys pretty much every weekend during the busy months.


As far as the inconsistencies, I think some, or maybe even a lot, of that comes from molding discs on days with varied barometric pressure and humidity.

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Last edited by brutalbrutus; 10-29-2018 at 10:13 PM.
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  #745  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:14 PM
riltim riltim is offline
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Innova dominating disc golf specialty stores isn't even the whole story. There are lots of stores that only carry Innova (Dicks, Walmart, Big-5 etc).
Every one of those stores probably makes more money on socks annually than they do for discs.

Owler has Merrell shoes at $31.1 Million dollars annually and its a household name. Hell they have their own outlet stores their so huge. No way in the world Innova is pushing that much plastic.
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  #746  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by riltim View Post
I'm guessing you don't have much experience in manufacturing. I have vendors fighting tooth and nail to get $100k worth of annual sales out of us. If you're buying $2-3 million dollars worth of plastic pellets annually from someone they're going to give you everything you want and then some


Also, it’s possibly less about the quality of plastic and more about how many environmental factors affect what the plastic will be like. Injection molding is extremely susceptible to this and is a big reason you see inconsistencies across brands. The amount of time you let the discs cool before ejecting them also plays a role and the less time they’re cooling, the more discs you can mold/sell.
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  #747  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by riltim View Post
Every one of those stores probably makes more money on socks annually than they do for discs.



Owler has Merrell shoes at $31.1 Million dollars annually and its a household name. Hell they have their own outlet stores their so huge. No way in the world Innova is pushing that much plastic.


Merrill is a household name for some people. I know it because I hike and play disc golf. Before I did those things, never knew what it was. I’d assume a lot of people have no clue what it is.

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  #748  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:32 PM
broomerang broomerang is offline
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Originally Posted by riltim View Post
I'm guessing you don't have much experience in manufacturing. I have vendors fighting tooth and nail to get $100k worth of annual sales out of us. If you're buying $2-3 million dollars worth of plastic pellets annually from someone they're going to give you everything you want and then some
That's exactly how sales channels are designed. If you didn't feel like your money mattered to the company you're buying from you would choose their competitor that made you feel special. Sales guys act like every deal is equally important, it's their job and their compensation is tied directly to the sale. It's why your AT&T rep acts like your single internet connection and phone lines are important but the support team couldn't care less. Your money isn't worth anything compared to the real big fish in AT&Ts basket.

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I find it hard to believe that anyone posting here has any idea what a privately held company is worth. I have worked for a small (100 employee) privately held company for ~20 years and I have no clue what the company is actually worth.
You are in charge of deciding of how much money is being spent in your division but you don't know how much revenue the company makes? Smells fishy to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riltim View Post
Every one of those stores probably makes more money on socks annually than they do for discs.

Owler has Merrell shoes at $31.1 Million dollars annually and its a household name. Hell they have their own outlet stores their so huge. No way in the world Innova is pushing that much plastic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrell_(company)

Quote:
In 1997, Karhu sold Merrell to Wolverine World Wide, a large footwear corporation which manufactured Hush Puppies shoes and Wolverine brand boots. In the year of the Wolverine acquisition, Merrell sales volume totaled $23 million.
Seems about right to me.
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  #749  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:35 PM
riltim riltim is offline
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According to Owler annual sales:

Merrell is $31.1 Million
Hydroflask is 10.1 Million
Nalgene is 2.7 Million

Anyone who thinks Innova moves more product than the three of these companies combined is delusional. Almost every person I know who does some sort of outdoor activity owns at product from all of the above companies. Hikers, Climbers, Cyclist, Boy Scouts, Etc.
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  #750  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:44 PM
riltim riltim is offline
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You are in charge of deciding of how much money is being spent in your division but you don't know how much revenue the company makes? Smells fishy to me.
You think negotiating prices for electrical components gets me a seat at the monthly board of directors meeting?

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