#91  
Old 08-04-2019, 05:48 AM
DiscJunkie's Avatar
DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Years Playing: 11.5
Courses Played: 40
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 4,479
Niced 500 Times in 209 Posts
Default

Jsmithey, I agree with most things in your post.
Also agree that trans-gender people are here to stay and we must respect them (you) and their devotion to DG.
Trans-genders in gender-separated sports is a topic that will get a lot more attention in the months and years to come.
Let's hope that all sides can discuss it rationally (as you have) and reach a solution that is considered and nuanced and not just surrender to those that shout the loudest.
Sponsored Links

Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 08-04-2019, 06:26 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Years Playing: 8.7
Courses Played: 19
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,235
Niced 908 Times in 536 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithey View Post
As a trans female Disc Golfer I feel that all divisions should be mixed and based off rating instead of gender and PDGA Rating is a genderless numbering system to begin with.
TDs have the option to create tournaments with ratings based divisions only, but it's not a very popular format for some reason. I played in one a while back and it was a blast. Playing with both male, female, young and old. The PDGA definitely needs to push this more often to TDs.

Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 08-04-2019, 07:45 AM
jedijon jedijon is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Courses Played: 6
Posts: 39
Niced 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9H0INZ2_s
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:13 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 24.4
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 15,195
Niced 3,478 Times in 1,516 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
TDs have the option to create tournaments with ratings based divisions only, but it's not a very popular format for some reason. I played in one a while back and it was a blast. Playing with both male, female, young and old. The PDGA definitely needs to push this more often to TDs.
I agree that the PDGA offers them, and they are fun. I've played in them, and run one every year, of a sorts---it's a 4-man team play event with a team ratings cap, so women can and do fill team spots exactly the same as a same-rated man would.

I'm not so sure how the PDGA pushes them, other than publicize the option.

TDs will do what players want. Or, what the TDs believe that most players want. After all, if we're going to all the trouble to run a tournament, we want people to come.

There are a few drawbacks to ratings-based events, which also touch on the broader discussion here:

The Pro/Am divide. If the highest division, with unlimited divisions, is "pro", then Ams of that rating are forced to play pro. They will likely decide to skip the event, instead. Meanwhile, women are pretty much precluded from playing pro, because few or none will meet the criteria. The better female players may skip it, as well.

Division stability. Players near a dividing line will bounce back and forth between different divisions, from event to event. This week you're at the top of one division, next week you're bumped up and at the bottom of another. Many players like categorizing themselves as a certain division, for a certain period of time.

Social considerations. The big one. Many older folks like playing with other people their age. Teenagers may too, or older players may not want to play with teens. Women may be more comfortable playing without men---something they may not get much opportunity to do, outside of tournaments. After all, you have to spend an entire weekend with your division. Players to whom these considerations are important, may not show.

Top of the heap. Protected divisions (age or gender) exist, in part, because of natural limitations on athleticism in those groups. It has nothing to do with the gifted physical attributes certain individuals may have; players over 50, for example, on average are much less athletic than 25-year-olds, and the best >50 can't compete with the best <40. Same thing with females. There's more satisfaction in finishing first among your peers in one of these groups, than finishing first among people rated less than 900.

*

These are not insurmountable, and it would be great to see more ratings-based events as an option, and a refreshing change. But they are considerations when doing so.

Tournament attendance is voluntary, and the PDGA is a member-run organization, so the player preferences will affect the decisions of TDs and the organization.

Niced: (3)
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 08-04-2019, 11:42 AM
Jsmithey Jsmithey is offline
Bogey Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Courses Played: 3
Posts: 52
Niced 107 Times in 36 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lines View Post
Spending 39 out of 40 years presenting as a male.
Trans people come out at different times in life usually driven by the pressures around them. There are young children with more "liberal" parents coming out at very young ages because they feel like nothing is wrong with it since their parents are supportive. And if they begin transition before puberty their bodies will develop as a female assigned at birth in regards to frame size etc.

There are people like me who dont come out until early adulthood because of the opposite. i was raised in a southern baptist household where i was convinced that my desire to be a woman was a sin and a temptation from the devil itself. it wasnt until i was an independent adult that i even felt safe considering the notion of transition. it wasnt till i was on the verge of suicide that i decided i had to in order to be happy.

And in reguards to people who come out later in life I'm sure they face similar pressures whether it be from family members, co workers or bosses, or even themselves.trans people respond to these factors in different ways just the same as cisgender folks.

So to expect every trans person to come out at the same time early in life is just plain unreasonable. They may be afraid their parents would beat them or be disowned, their boss may fire them, their husband/wife may leave them. There are many factors that lead to when a trans person feels its their time to come out and when they can finally accept themselves and everyone is different.

Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:17 PM
lines's Avatar
lines lines is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Asheville NC
Courses Played: 35
Posts: 883
Niced 605 Times in 320 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithey View Post
Trans people come out at different times in life usually driven by the pressures around them. There are young children with more "liberal" parents coming out at very young ages because they feel like nothing is wrong with it since their parents are supportive. And if they begin transition before puberty their bodies will develop as a female assigned at birth in regards to frame size etc.

There are people like me who dont come out until early adulthood because of the opposite. i was raised in a southern baptist household where i was convinced that my desire to be a woman was a sin and a temptation from the devil itself. it wasnt until i was an independent adult that i even felt safe considering the notion of transition. it wasnt till i was on the verge of suicide that i decided i had to in order to be happy.

And in reguards to people who come out later in life I'm sure they face similar pressures whether it be from family members, co workers or bosses, or even themselves.trans people respond to these factors in different ways just the same as cisgender folks.

So to expect every trans person to come out at the same time early in life is just plain unreasonable. They may be afraid their parents would beat them or be disowned, their boss may fire them, their husband/wife may leave them. There are many factors that lead to when a trans person feels its their time to come out and when they can finally accept themselves and everyone is different.
I get what your saying. I'm making the argument if it is fair or not. Laura has 39 years of being a male under her belt.
Do you think that is fair to the other 17 golfers in that group?

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:27 PM
Hampstead's Avatar
Hampstead Hampstead is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spaceship Earth
Years Playing: 29.6
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 3,249
Niced 1,620 Times in 530 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lines View Post
I get what your saying. I'm making the argument if it is fair or not. Laura has 39 years of being a male under her belt.
Do you think that is fair to the other 17 golfers in that group?
I thought it has been well established that life isn't fair.

Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:40 PM
Halcón's Avatar
Halcón Halcón is offline
Free at Last
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Years Playing: 8.6
Courses Played: 1
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 12,004
Niced 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
I thought it has been well established that life isn't fair.
Then you have no problem with doping?

Niced: (3)
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:53 PM
Hampstead's Avatar
Hampstead Hampstead is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spaceship Earth
Years Playing: 29.6
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 3,249
Niced 1,620 Times in 530 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcón View Post
Then you have no problem with doping?
Guidelines have been established and Laura played by the rules. Nothing unfair about that.


As for doping, guidelines have been established and if you violate those and get caught, there are potential penalties. Beyond that, it's a complicated subject. Are we talking about doping in disc golf? What substance specifically? Sports in general? What substances and what benefits do those substances have?

People have been trying to gain a competitive edge for as long as people have been competing.

Reply With Quote
 

  #100  
Old 08-04-2019, 04:03 PM
Halcón's Avatar
Halcón Halcón is offline
Free at Last
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Years Playing: 8.6
Courses Played: 1
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 12,004
Niced 1,189 Times in 605 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
Guidelines have been established and Laura played by the rules. Nothing unfair about that.
That the guidelines are fair or not is highly debatable, and as I opined earlier, there will come a time when trans women will not be able to compete with women.

But yes, someone playing by the rules is, by definition, fair, no matter what one believes about the rules themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
People have been trying to gain a competitive edge for as long as people have been competing.
100% Truth.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
World Champion Paige Bjerkaas WITB 2019 SD86 Discs 13 05-10-2019 01:10 PM
2019 Bowling Green Amateur Championships tnmotorman Tournaments & Leagues 18 04-23-2019 09:57 AM
2019 PDGA Amateur Disc Golf World Championships Darkgreen Tournaments & Leagues 25 12-13-2017 05:44 PM
2010 Amateur World Championships SmoothSailor General Disc Golf Chat 12 07-10-2010 10:29 AM
2010 Amateur World Championships SmoothSailor Vacations & Road Trips 0 06-17-2010 01:37 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.