#21  
Old 05-28-2014, 01:06 AM
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WhiteyBear WhiteyBear is offline
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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Where does it say that foot faults can't be appealed?

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-r.../80501-appeals
What's to appeal? There is also zero statement about appealing above the TD.

If your group calls a ff, and seconds it, you got that penalty. It's not like an ob situation.
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2014, 01:57 AM
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peabody peabody is offline
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As someone who does not play many PDGA events but really wants to know rules and etiquette what should the three people be doing when the other person is throwing? Should we all as a group meander over to where they are at and watch carefully what they are doing? Even if he has thrown way off from the fairway? Are we supposed to watch every throw from everyone in your group?
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Old 05-28-2014, 07:46 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by peabody View Post
As someone who does not play many PDGA events but really wants to know rules and etiquette what should the three people be doing when the other person is throwing? Should we all as a group meander over to where they are at and watch carefully what they are doing? Even if he has thrown way off from the fairway? Are we supposed to watch every throw from everyone in your group?
Yes, that's what you are expected to do. Does everyone do that? No, they don't. Usually because everyone is more concerned with finding their disc and figuring out their next shot and can't be bothered to go too far out of their own way. Which just makes those that do follow the expectations of the rule book look like creepers "out to get" other players. Sad state of affairs, really.
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:38 AM
jjpitt29 jjpitt29 is offline
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Yes, that's what you are expected to do. Does everyone do that? No, they don't. Usually because everyone is more concerned with finding their disc and figuring out their next shot and can't be bothered to go too far out of their own way. Which just makes those that do follow the expectations of the rule book look like creepers "out to get" other players. Sad state of affairs, really.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Yes, that's what you are expected to do. Does everyone do that? No, they don't. Usually because everyone is more concerned with finding their disc and figuring out their next shot and can't be bothered to go too far out of their own way. Which just makes those that do follow the expectations of the rule book look like creepers "out to get" other players. Sad state of affairs, really.
Depends on the setting. For an out of town tourny where I don't know the people or the culture, I pay more attention. For local events where I know all the players and their track record, I am far less likely to pay close attention. Except for certain locals who have an established track record of being loose with the rules
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:38 AM
tampora tampora is offline
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It's just not reasonable to always watch everyone's throw, especially on a course with tons of thick thorny patches and elevation changes.

How many times have you crawled on your hands and knees into a thorn bush with someone just to watch their stance because you couldn't see clearly from the outside?

On a ho-hum course, watching every throw can be easy.. for sure.
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteyBear View Post
What's to appeal? There is also zero statement about appealing above the TD.

If your group calls a ff, and seconds it, you got that penalty. It's not like an ob situation.
If some in the group don't understand the rules, such as ten meters, or proper stance, then it makes perfect sense to appeal to the TD and let the TD explain the rules and reverse any improperly called foot faults. It's not unusual to get a group in a rec division with friends who play casual together all the time and think they know the rules but don't.
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
If some in the group don't understand the rules, such as ten meters, or proper stance, then it makes perfect sense to appeal to the TD and let the TD explain the rules and reverse any improperly called foot faults. It's not unusual to get a group in a rec division with friends who play casual together all the time and think they know the rules but don't.
This is why all players should have a rule book on their person.

To reverse a foot fault call would be a wild example, and as a TD, more than likel I'd just let the group decide the outcome if it was a POV example, and not a rules example.

For instance, I called a FF on a guy at Worlds last year, no one seconded my call. I said it was his first violation, and that I didn't need a second (this happened twice in two days). Both times the card thought I was an idiot and that you ALWAYS need a second. Both times the TD, after the round, confirmed my call. That's a rules call by a TD.

On the other hand, if a group came up and said "we all saw his foot touch the mini marker", and you said "no it didn't, I was six inches back and I'm appealing", then the TD (if they are smart) would say they concur with the group ruling.

Appealing because of a rule-based question is different than appealing because you don't think you foot faulted. That's what I'm driving at. As a TD, I would give them the face if they came to me asking to judge a foot fault.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteyBear View Post
This is why all players should have a rule book on their person.

To reverse a foot fault call would be a wild example, and as a TD, more than likel I'd just let the group decide the outcome if it was a POV example, and not a rules example.

For instance, I called a FF on a guy at Worlds last year, no one seconded my call. I said it was his first violation, and that I didn't need a second (this happened twice in two days). Both times the card thought I was an idiot and that you ALWAYS need a second. Both times the TD, after the round, confirmed my call. That's a rules call by a TD.

On the other hand, if a group came up and said "we all saw his foot touch the mini marker", and you said "no it didn't, I was six inches back and I'm appealing", then the TD (if they are smart) would say they concur with the group ruling.

Appealing because of a rule-based question is different than appealing because you don't think you foot faulted. That's what I'm driving at. As a TD, I would give them the face if they came to me asking to judge a foot fault.
Cool.

And as far as appealing to the Tour Manager, I've heard you can get the TM to intervene if the TD is getting a rule wrong. But I don't know for sure.
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  #30  
Old 06-03-2014, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteyBear View Post
...I called a FF on a guy at Worlds last year, no one seconded my call. I said it was his first violation, and that I didn't need a second (this happened twice in two days). Both times the card thought I was an idiot and that you ALWAYS need a second. Both times the TD, after the round, confirmed my call. That's a rules call by a TD.
I'll bet playing with you is a really good time. A hoot, if you will.
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