#1841  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:08 AM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
I tried and then traded for a used pro Thunderbird 166g. Love how that thing flew for me. I've been trying to not buy any new discs but if I lose this one, or see another similar to it, I might have to change that.
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Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
All I'll say is to give it a try and see what happens. There's no law saying you can't keep the Teebird in your bag no matter what the Thunderbird does.

Pro Thunderbirds are awesome discs, and worth trying in their own right.
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Originally Posted by icebat View Post
If you're only getting wraiths an extra 10 feet past your teebirds, sounds like you may have more of an issue with getting the nose up slightly.

I don't throw teebirds, but I do throw Thunderbirds, CD2's and Wraiths. Wraiths are definitely the longest for me. If you're looking for distance, I would check out a pro thunderbird, but if you'r looking for premium plastic, I don't think you're going to gain any real distance throwing Champ or Star thunder birds over wraiths. I think someone else said this, but IMO wraiths are a little easier to get some turn out of and can shape more lines. If you want something that flies like a beat in premium thunderbird out of the box, I would check out a cd2. Or maybe try to find a used g star thunderbird.
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Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
At 330' Teebird power, a seasoned Pro Thunderbird can show a little turn (based on my experience) and be a workhorse driver. I was pushing my Champ Teebirds to 350' this past summer and still like Pro Thunderbirds for a controllable distance driver. They are similar to how Pro Destroyers compare to Star; will season faster, usually more glide, easier to get some turn and more distance. If Champ/Star Thunderbirds are just a little too much, try it out in Pro plastic for a little while.
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Originally Posted by broomerang View Post
CD2 is a friendly thundy as well. Same speed but way more glide, less OS, and very easy to learn. It won’t mask many form flaws either.
I'm just quoting everyone from last couple pages that commented on either Pro Thunderbird or CD2 that might have an opinion.

Was thinking about trying out one or the other. Anyone have an opinion on flight differences between the two?

Is Pro Thunderbird still OS? Regarding Saracoms comment that it's akin to Pro Destroyer vs Star worries me a little. Could just be the two destroyers I have but my pro Destroyer is a very different disc than the star for me - I really like it - but it's more of Heat/Roadrunner/Sidewinder stability IMO. What I'm getting at is that while the Pro Destroyer serves as a Max Distance Driver for me it's not at all overstable. In the Pro Thunderbird/CD2 spot I was kind of wanting something that is still a little overstable but maybe more AM arm friendly than an OS star/champ thunderbird.

Added points for anyone that can compare to a PP Lucid Convict.

Thanks all
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  #1842  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:44 AM
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DenverTiger13 DenverTiger13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
I'm just quoting everyone from last couple pages that commented on either Pro Thunderbird or CD2 that might have an opinion.

Was thinking about trying out one or the other. Anyone have an opinion on flight differences between the two?

Is Pro Thunderbird still OS? Regarding Saracoms comment that it's akin to Pro Destroyer vs Star worries me a little. Could just be the two destroyers I have but my pro Destroyer is a very different disc than the star for me - I really like it - but it's more of Heat/Roadrunner/Sidewinder stability IMO. What I'm getting at is that while the Pro Destroyer serves as a Max Distance Driver for me it's not at all overstable. In the Pro Thunderbird/CD2 spot I was kind of wanting something that is still a little overstable but maybe more AM arm friendly than an OS star/champ thunderbird.

Added points for anyone that can compare to a PP Lucid Convict.

Thanks all
I can't compare to the CD2 but from what I've read a Pro Thunderbird and S-Line CD2 on average will perform similarly. My new Pro Thundy with a nice dome has slight turn (-.5 or so) with a harder fade (2 - 2.5) at 330-370 feet. My flat and used (one year in the bag) Pro Thundy shows controllable turn (-1 or so) before a slight fade (1.5ish) at similar distances. I have not had a pro Thunderbird that has Sidewinder stability unless it's flat and REALLY beat up. Overall, I find the pro Thunderbird to be the straightest type of Thunderbird. Reminds me of my favorite Eagle that acts like a Eagle-L (especially once they are beat-in). Great glide, controllable turn and a little fade. Ideal for woods shot or forced turnovers without wind.

I wouldn't use a Pro Thundy in a headwind. Even that new one with dome I have to put some good hyzer on to flip it up and the fade sometimes just isn't there especially if there is some cross wind in addition to the headwind. I'd at least use a champion if not a star thundy for headwinds. Let me know if you have any clarification questions on the above

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  #1843  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:40 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Added points for anyone that can compare to a PP Lucid Convict.
I haven't thrown a Pro Thunderbird, but would definitely like to try. I have thrown a couple of S-CD2's, never a very beat in one. They are like a worked in champ Thunderbird, like 9/5/-0.5/2 but if you have bigger power they will definitely turn -1 or a bit more. Enough for a tight S flight with enough stability to sweep out. I am at higher altitude, but I could FH it with slight hyzer for the flip up at full power and get 330-350' with no concern at the stability at all, and BH it would just show a little turn/carry. I wouldn't be concerned about throwing it if there's a bit of a breeze around either. Again, haven't thrown a beat one.

The Convict on the other hand has less HSS...if you really get on it, it will turn and hold the turn more. If underpowered it seems like it will fade out aggressively still. With any wind it shows that it definitely isn't very HSS. I think that although in calm you could get somewhat similar flights from Convict and CD2, I would trust a CD2 WAY more. The Convict would get me in lots of trouble and I think I would trust a CD2.

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  #1844  
Old 04-17-2019, 01:02 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Is Pro Thunderbird still OS? Regarding Saracoms comment that it's akin to Pro Destroyer vs Star worries me a little. Could just be the two destroyers I have but my pro Destroyer is a very different disc than the star for me - I really like it - but it's more of Heat/Roadrunner/Sidewinder stability IMO. What I'm getting at is that while the Pro Destroyer serves as a Max Distance Driver for me it's not at all overstable. In the Pro Thunderbird/CD2 spot I was kind of wanting something that is still a little overstable but maybe more AM arm friendly than an OS star/champ thunderbird.

Added points for anyone that can compare to a PP Lucid Convict.
Pro Thunderbirds are not what I would call OS, but they are not flippy like a RR or SW. They are nice for filling in a spot without having to wait for a Champ/Star to get beat enough. I haven't found Thunderbirds to have the amount of variance that Destroyers have, so I think you can get a good amount of use out of the Pro Thunderbird in that spot.

For the disc you are describing, I like a seasoned Champ Thunderbird more than anything else I have tried (Culverin, Convict, Longbowman, etc.) I would get a Pro and a Champ and use both until the Champ is where you want it. Or get a used Champ and not have to work it in as much.

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  #1845  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:05 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
Pro Thunderbirds are not what I would call OS, but they are not flippy like a RR or SW. They are nice for filling in a spot without having to wait for a Champ/Star to get beat enough. I haven't found Thunderbirds to have the amount of variance that Destroyers have, so I think you can get a good amount of use out of the Pro Thunderbird in that spot.

For the disc you are describing, I like a seasoned Champ Thunderbird more than anything else I have tried (Culverin, Convict, Longbowman, etc.) I would get a Pro and a Champ and use both until the Champ is where you want it. Or get a used Champ and not have to work it in as much.
Nice, that sounds good. Yeah the destroyer variance between my pro and star is pretty significant in terms of PLH. I could see Thunderbirds having less variance.
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  #1846  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:13 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Originally Posted by DenverTiger13 View Post
I can't compare to the CD2 but from what I've read a Pro Thunderbird and S-Line CD2 on average will perform similarly. My new Pro Thundy with a nice dome has slight turn (-.5 or so) with a harder fade (2 - 2.5) at 330-370 feet. My flat and used (one year in the bag) Pro Thundy shows controllable turn (-1 or so) before a slight fade (1.5ish) at similar distances. I have not had a pro Thunderbird that has Sidewinder stability unless it's flat and REALLY beat up. Overall, I find the pro Thunderbird to be the straightest type of Thunderbird. Reminds me of my favorite Eagle that acts like a Eagle-L (especially once they are beat-in). Great glide, controllable turn and a little fade. Ideal for woods shot or forced turnovers without wind.

I wouldn't use a Pro Thundy in a headwind. Even that new one with dome I have to put some good hyzer on to flip it up and the fade sometimes just isn't there especially if there is some cross wind in addition to the headwind. I'd at least use a champion if not a star thundy for headwinds. Let me know if you have any clarification questions on the above
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I haven't thrown a Pro Thunderbird, but would definitely like to try. I have thrown a couple of S-CD2's, never a very beat in one. They are like a worked in champ Thunderbird, like 9/5/-0.5/2 but if you have bigger power they will definitely turn -1 or a bit more. Enough for a tight S flight with enough stability to sweep out. I am at higher altitude, but I could FH it with slight hyzer for the flip up at full power and get 330-350' with no concern at the stability at all, and BH it would just show a little turn/carry. I wouldn't be concerned about throwing it if there's a bit of a breeze around either. Again, haven't thrown a beat one.

The Convict on the other hand has less HSS...if you really get on it, it will turn and hold the turn more. If underpowered it seems like it will fade out aggressively still. With any wind it shows that it definitely isn't very HSS. I think that although in calm you could get somewhat similar flights from Convict and CD2, I would trust a CD2 WAY more. The Convict would get me in lots of trouble and I think I would trust a CD2.
The Pro Thunderbird sounds nice by your description DenTiger but it also sounds a lot like my Convict; wind comment especially.

My Convict now a little seasoned does show a little turn and really just finishes straight, no hard fade. If I put it on hyzer it'll fade but sometimes if finishes straight when I was hoping for a bit more bite. And especially in the wind. It's not that I dislike my convict I just might want a slightly more OS complement (or replacement on windy days) that still gets nice carry.

Slowplastics comments regarding the CD2 sound like it might be more what I'm looking for honestly. I kinda want to try both though.

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  #1847  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:22 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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The downside to the CD2 for me is that it has the anhyzer top, which I don't love the feel of, but they are very predictable to throw coming from throwing the Thunderbird. The Innova Viking, which I have only thrown one of, also had that -1/2 flight and was very fun to throw. It was less stable than the few CD2's I have thrown though, so I don't think this would quite stand up to your wind requirements. It definitely turned more on a hard FH than the CD2 did for me.

I also agree that if you can find an old/beat champ Thunderbird then pick that up too. They still don't flip all that much, just have a forgiving turn after you release them...and they remain very predictable.

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  #1848  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
The downside to the CD2 for me is that it has the anhyzer top, which I don't love the feel of, but they are very predictable to throw coming from throwing the Thunderbird. The Innova Viking, which I have only thrown one of, also had that -1/2 flight and was very fun to throw. It was less stable than the few CD2's I have thrown though, so I don't think this would quite stand up to your wind requirements. It definitely turned more on a hard FH than the CD2 did for me.

I also agree that if you can find an old/beat champ Thunderbird then pick that up too. They still don't flip all that much, just have a forgiving turn after you release them...and they remain very predictable.
I really agree with that beat-in champ answer for what it sounds like you're looking for deyo7. It will give you more stability in a headwind (enough to put some hyzer on it and cut into a 10-15 MPH headwind for a straight shot) but also offer a pretty neutral to overstable flight even in tailwinds to be a go-to driver. Would be a step-up from the convict you are describing. Pro thunderbird wouldn't give you much difference from that convict but you could get a champ and a pro Thunderbird and eliminate an extra mold.

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  #1849  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:24 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Cool guys, thank you much. I'll check out the used bins for a champ Thunderbird when I'm at a shop

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  #1850  
Old 04-17-2019, 07:48 PM
broomerang broomerang is offline
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Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Cool guys, thank you much. I'll check out the used bins for a champ Thunderbird when I'm at a shop
Agree with others above, it sounds like this is the best choice for you. I would also try and find a worked in flat S-line or C-Line CD2 just to throw and compare. You might like the extra turn they will exhibit.

Pro Thundy's are really nice and fun to throw. I wouldn't trust it into a headwind after a few rounds of abuse though. They have a ton of glide and I'd liken them to a fresh CD2. I was trying to work one to the point of a roller and cycle it along side 2 premium Thundy's but it didn't work out. I didn't throw them for 2 seasons though which is at least how long it would have taken to accomplish kicking out all the worked in FD3 and PD I already carry.

Flat CD2s are the way to go if you want a premium plastic but more workable Thundy. They don't handle headwind as well (FD3 or PD for that). Star Thundy's are much more OS than Champ. Champ are nice, and once broken in become more workable but they won't develop turn as much as they just lose fade. Basically exactly like how a Teebird seasons. I know there are some less stable Thundy runs out there but in general you can expect 0 turn out of the box, -.5 once really worked in.

I tried both the CD2 and the Thundy last year. In the end only 1 CD2 stayed in my bag. Neither could replace the 2 FD3 and 3 PD I carry. The workable straight flier that holds lines and fades better than a RR or SW is what I kept the flat CD2 for.

At 350' I would put them as follows:

Champ Thundy - Straight, holds hyzer line, flips to flat but not over, pans straight out of anhyzer, not much drift right, finished left of center. Good for cut rollers that won't flip

CD2 - Straight, holds hyzer lines, flips to flat but not over, holds anhyzer longer, a little drift right, finished just left of center. Good for cut rollers that eventually flip at end.

SW - Requires the most learning of the 4 discs. Versatile as long as no headwind and willing to throw steep hyzer angles to achieve straight flights. Works right, flips flat and over, small fade, holds anhyzer to ground, finishes right of center. Good for long straight rollers that finish right.

Barsby RR - Super easy to throw. Lazer straight on hyzer. Flips to flat and over. Moves less laterally than the SW. finishes straight on line. Holds anhyzer to ground, finishes right of center. Good for long straight rollers that finish right. More stable than previous production runs of RR that I have thrown. Still moves less laterally on a flat release than the SW. Less turn and less fade.

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