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Old 08-19-2019, 10:06 AM
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Default Difference between M-3 400 & 750 Kevin Jones plastics

Just wanted to get some opinions on the differences between two plastics for Prodigy. I'm in the market for an M3, but have never thrown any Prodigy plastic, only felt them in the store a few times. I'm trying to decide between the 400 plastic or the 750 Kevin Jones plastic. From the little I can gather, it seems as if the 400 is most like a Champ plastic and the 750 is similar but harder? But that doesn't really add up to my experiences.

I have felt in hand a few 400 plastic discs and they are not like Champ plastic. They are much softer, gummier, and more flexible than any Champ plastic disc I have or have felt. Most of the Champ plastic I have or have felt is THE hardest plastic. Almost like glass! VERY overstable and almost no give to the plastic.

Whereas the few discs I have felt in store that are Prodigy 400 are similar looking to Champ, but are different in all other respects. They are softer, more flexible, gummier and probably much more neutral/stable, compared to the VERY overstable rock hard Champ plastic. To be honest, the few 400 discs I have felt in a store, remind me a lot of my Discmania FD S lines. Also, the 400 I have felt in person feels a lot like my MD3 Iron Samurai C line Glow plastic as well.

I also have a Lat 64 Opto Moonshine Compass, and it to, is EXTREMELY similar to the Discmania S line plastic, as well as the C Line Glow Iron Samurai disc I have. I almost can't tell them apart in my hands. The MD3 C Line Glow is maybe just a touch firmer than the S line, but very close.

But then to make this even more confusing, I also have a Leo Piironen FD2 C Line Glow disc, and it isn't anything like the MD3 Iron Samurai. It's MUCH harder, stiffer, less gummy than the MD3 and is VERY overstable! It feels and throws MUCH more like my rock hard Champ discs. So I'm totally confused about the 750 Kevin Jones M3 plastic.

So I just need to know what the real deal is with the 750 Kevin Jones M-3 plastic? Is it super overstable like the glass hard Innova Champ plastic? Or is it more like Discmania S line/C line MD3 Glow? Is the 750 Kevin Jones super overstable or does it throw like it's numbers say it does? Super straight with a hint of turn and a reliable forward fade at the end?

Thanks
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:11 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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I have only thrown the 750 in drivers but my experience with those is they are less OS than 400.

I also don't really think the majority of Innova's Champion plastic is all that hard. It varies from run to run like pretty much everything else in the industry.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I have only thrown the 750 in drivers but my experience with those is they are less OS than 400.

I also don't really think the majority of Innova's Champion plastic is all that hard. It varies from run to run like pretty much everything else in the industry.
Weird! So you are saying that in your experience, the 400 plastic throws more OS than the harder 750? Meaning, it fades more easily? And turns less? That makes no sense based on what Prodigy says on their own website. They say the 400 is middle of the road (good feel, good softness, neutral) and that 750 is like the 400 but firmer feeling. So is that not true? Or are you just saying "IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?"

Same for the Innova Champ. I was just using my own personal experiences to try and compare plastics. I have 4 Innova's in Champ plastic. ALL of them rock hard and very overstable. And then the others I've felt in the store were the same.

So are you saying plastic feel, softness, flight path literally changes from batch to batch for all the manufacturers? I'm still sort of new to disc golf, and have never heard this. Thanks
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:27 AM
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750 is firmer, and is probably what you’re looking for if you think 400 is too soft or gummy. I don’t have enough experience throwing 750 plastic to know if it’s more or less stable.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Audible Vibration View Post
750 is firmer, and is probably what you’re looking for if you think 400 is too soft or gummy. I don’t have enough experience throwing 750 plastic to know if it’s more or less stable.
No, I'm saying I LOVE the gummy feel of the 400 plastic. I like that it's sort of soft (but still firm overall), and has some flex to it (but isn't too flexible). That it feels like it would be more forgiving, not super OS.

My favorite feeling discs are my: Discmania S line FD's, MD3 C line Iron Samurai Glow, and Lat 64 Compass Opto Moonshine. They are the perfect feeling plastic for me, and all fly about the same. They are gummy, but not too much. They are flexible, but not too much. And they fly perfect. Not much High Speed Turn even on powerful throw, but they also don't just go left right away. They go straight or a tiny bit right on a hard throw, then have a predictable fade that the flight numbers indicate for each disc.

And the few Prodigy 400 discs I've felt, feel very similar to those. So that's what I'm looking for. If the 750 spectrum is very similar, but just firmer, than yes, that is what I'm looking for.

I just don't want to get a disc that turns out to be super rock hard, super over stable, and less glide than what I'm used to. I want a great feeling plastic that plays like it's numbers says. Not some pro level rock hard beast that only a pro can throw straight that goes left unless you can throw 600'. Thanks
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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You’re gonna find differences in the way plastic feels between different runs of the same plastic from all manufacturers. Especially with prodigy, if you find some 400 M3s you like it’s worth grabbing a couple because the next run will likely look and feel different.

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Old 08-19-2019, 11:23 AM
phishbiscuits phishbiscuits is offline
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300 is firm and slightly chalky, in my experience with it. Comparing it to the others is a bit unfair, given the baseline nature of the 300 (I know they have a true "baseline").

400S is amazing - grippy, slightly flexible, even fingerprinty (not often...)

400G is firmer - it is a good compromise between 400S and 750.

750 is firmer and a bit slicker.

I would put 400S in the same camp as K1 from Kastaplast and Ultrium from Prodiscus. They are my three favorite plastics across all manufacturers.

I have no experience with "Spectrum" blends.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I have only thrown the 750 in drivers but my experience with those is they are less OS than 400.

I also don't really think the majority of Innova's Champion plastic is all that hard. It varies from run to run like pretty much everything else in the industry.
Would you say Jolly Launcher is hard? I find that my older run Steve Brinster TeeBirds are hard. But, I think that the trend is softer, even gummier Champion - ESPECIALLY in Glow.

I think that Champion Glow is a different blend than Champion. Of course, I have no idea! Just some dude with a keyboard!
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:33 AM
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My experience with my 400 and 750 Prodigy discs (sample size of two 400s and one 750) is that 400 is more like Lat64's Opto plastic... Champ-'ish', but just a bit softer/gummier. The 750 is more like the firmer Champ plastics.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Weird! So you are saying that in your experience, the 400 plastic throws more OS than the harder 750? Meaning, it fades more easily? And turns less? That makes no sense based on what Prodigy says on their own website. They say the 400 is middle of the road (good feel, good softness, neutral) and that 750 is like the 400 but firmer feeling. So is that not true? Or are you just saying "IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?"

Same for the Innova Champ. I was just using my own personal experiences to try and compare plastics. I have 4 Innova's in Champ plastic. ALL of them rock hard and very overstable. And then the others I've felt in the store were the same.

So are you saying plastic feel, softness, flight path literally changes from batch to batch for all the manufacturers? I'm still sort of new to disc golf, and have never heard this. Thanks
to the bolded- yes, that is why i said "my experience is..."

and yes everything changes from run to run (and within runs) for all manufacturers...
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