#21  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:27 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
BTW - all the stuff that Sidewinder writes about, well, it isn't part of the throw, in my opinion. It is essential and puts your arm, and body in the correct position, and allows you to build up the energy in your muscles, to give a powerful whip in your throw. If you go through all of his tips, up to the throw, and that transition takes too long, you lose it all and your throw stinks. If you try and begin your throw from the relaxation point, your throw stinks. The whole thing matters.
What kind of comes down to I think, is getting to the right result in one of two ways.

You either don't know what a good throw feels like, or you don't know what it feels like to throw RHBH which is similar to a lefty baseball throw...so if you get into all those positions and get the sequence worked out, you'll be throwing correctly and finally understand what the goal/feel is.

Or you're lucky or experienced with other sports and you "get it" with the throw part of it, and then all that other stuff is icing to really help you get into better/more efficient/stronger positions to help maximize power/consistency and reduce inefficiency.

I can just "feel it" with my FH shots, after some work of course. My BH I have to trust my form, I can feel some good things but it's a bit more of trying to get to the real thing going down all the steps along the way. It's definitely better to just "feel it" but it doesn't just work that way for everyone.
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:33 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
This will get me in trouble, but I'm good at that. Go watch a baseball pitcher throw. Throwing a disc is the same thing. When a pitcher loads up, before the "real" throw, there is this sag, a pause before he snaps the ball out. Simon and most pros do something very similar. That tucked disc is part of that sag.

Folks sometimes forget, we are throwing the disc. They get caught up in the mechanical components of the throw. If you've played any ball sport that requires a powerful throw, like baseball, the throw has a structure. A set up, and then a throw. Separating the two is a transition point. Watch any baseball game and you will see it over and over. Recently, Dave Dunipace starting talking about the whip, you can find his comments. The throw is what I view as an active whip. The transition is a relaxation point so that you have the structure to whip the disc. Without that transition, you get no whip, or at least I don't.

Pulling the disc straight through doesn't allow the structure, arm and disc positioning, to whip that disc out. That tuck, that Sidewinder writes about, does. That is why Simon doesn't just pull the disc straight through.

BTW - all the stuff that Sidewinder writes about, well, it isn't part of the throw, in my opinion. It is essential and puts your arm, and body in the correct position, and allows you to build up the energy in your muscles, to give a powerful whip in your throw. If you go through all of his tips, up to the throw, and that transition takes too long, you lose it all and your throw stinks. If you try and begin your throw from the relaxation point, your throw stinks. The whole thing matters.
I'm not sure what you are saying.
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:59 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
The notion of a "straight" pull through is kind of nonsense. No one pulls on a straight line, and some of the best throwers in the game don't reach back "straight" either (Doss, Schultz, E.Oakley).
E.Oakley....really...you put him in the same group as those other 2? Seriously????
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:40 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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E.Oakley....really...you put him in the same group as those other 2? Seriously????
Just thinking of wide rail throwers. No, he's not in the same category, but he throws over 500', do you? That's the point I'm making, not suggesting he's the next Doss.

But to give Oakley some credit, he want from a "nobody" to winning his first A-tier a couple years back, to being on lead card in some pretty big tournaments. It's a pretty impressive rise. You don't become 1020 rated without a very good backhand these days.


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  #25  
Old 09-14-2019, 02:11 PM
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Sirlordcomic Sirlordcomic is online now
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
This will get me in trouble, but I'm good at that. Go watch a baseball pitcher throw. Throwing a disc is the same thing. When a pitcher loads up, before the "real" throw, there is this sag, a pause before he snaps the ball out. Simon and most pros do something very similar. That tucked disc is part of that sag.



Folks sometimes forget, we are throwing the disc. They get caught up in the mechanical components of the throw. If you've played any ball sport that requires a powerful throw, like baseball, the throw has a structure. A set up, and then a throw. Separating the two is a transition point. Watch any baseball game and you will see it over and over. Recently, Dave Dunipace starting talking about the whip, you can find his comments. The throw is what I view as an active whip. The transition is a relaxation point so that you have the structure to whip the disc. Without that transition, you get no whip, or at least I don't.



Pulling the disc straight through doesn't allow the structure, arm and disc positioning, to whip that disc out. That tuck, that Sidewinder writes about, does. That is why Simon doesn't just pull the disc straight through.



BTW - all the stuff that Sidewinder writes about, well, it isn't part of the throw, in my opinion. It is essential and puts your arm, and body in the correct position, and allows you to build up the energy in your muscles, to give a powerful whip in your throw. If you go through all of his tips, up to the throw, and that transition takes too long, you lose it all and your throw stinks. If you try and begin your throw from the relaxation point, your throw stinks. The whole thing matters.



Makes a lot of sense. Been out with a some beginners recently, some in flip flops, very easy to observe the breakdown of any type of useful energy transfer, no structure. Two distinct actions, run up, pause, throw.


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  #26  
Old 09-14-2019, 03:36 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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The "pause" is just letting weight settle on the front leg before starting to turn targetward. So the duration of the pause is basically from front toes touching to crushing the can. Nothing more complicated than that.
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  #27  
Old 09-14-2019, 04:22 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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The "pause" is just letting weight settle on the front leg before starting to turn targetward. So the duration of the pause is basically from front toes touching to crushing the can. Nothing more complicated than that.

Time enough for the water in you cells and organs "to flow and not to crash".


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  #28  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:03 PM
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