#11  
Old 07-07-2018, 09:23 PM
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What if the wind is blowing from the basket towards your lie and you ask someone to stand next to the basket and fart?

Legal?
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2018, 09:52 PM
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Seems weird dude would have such a sonar like hearing that even asking for this would make a difference... Even my chucker ass has been waaaaaaay off line but still know where I am throwing to?

I dont get it at all. Would never ask someone to rattle the chains to get a feel for my shot.

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  #13  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:54 PM
mrtho mrtho is offline
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I dont see it being illegal i just dont see the point. I know if im in a spot where i cannot see the basket then i probably will not get there but i can usually step out and say ok the basket is about 25-30 feet past that landmark and 45 feet to the left. I can usually get a berring of roughly where it is without needing anybody to use sonar to locate it for me

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Old 07-08-2018, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aclay View Post
Given the following rule, I don't see how ringing the chains saves times. The 30 seconds to throw is related to determining the lie, not the line. I am not an avid watcher of tournaments, so maybe I am missing something.

802.03 Excessive Time

A player has taken excessive time if they are present and have not thrown within 30 seconds after:
The previous player has thrown; and,
They have had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie; and,
They are next in the throwing order; and,
The playing area is clear and free of distractions.
Who said it had anything to do with saving time?
It's about getting a better idea about precisely where the basket is at when you can't see it, because your obscured by a large bush, and even if you walks out to see where the basket is, the walk back to your lie takes you around enough that it's hard to determine where it is relative to your lie.
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
We've always done it and even in casual rounds we play by the rules. If there's a rule against this I missed it.
I've done it in casual rounds. In certain situations, when you're pretty close but obscured, and have to walk way around some bushes to reach your lie, it can help you get a better bead on where the basket is.

No one could find a rule that really seemed to make it illegal. The closest anyone could find was:
Quote:
813.02 Illegal Device

A. A player must not use any device that directly assists in making a throw. Devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape, bandages, or gauze) and medical items (such as knee or ankle braces) are allowed. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed. An item such as a towel or a pad may be placed on the lie as long as it is not greater than one centimeter in thickness when compressed.

B. A device that is questioned by another player or an Official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.

C. A player receives two penalty throws if observed at any time during a round to be using an illegal device. A player who repeatedly uses an illegal device may be subject to disqualification in accordance with Section 3.03 of the PDGA Competition Manual.
It's definitely being used as a directional aid.
But would you consider a person, or the basket itself, a device?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcσn View Post
It gives the player a potential advantage that he wouldn't have otherwise had. I'd say that should be against the rules, if it's not already.
As for unfair competitive advantage: there's no reason it couldn't be done for any player that asked.

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Old 07-08-2018, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
It's definitely being used as a directional aid.
But would you consider a person, or the basket itself, a device?

Let’s stop and think rationally for a second.

This is a sport policed largely by the peers on your card. You can rattle the damn chains.

I can appreciate certain long winded theoretical discussions but this one seems over the top ridiculous. It’s disc golf not international securities law. Please never make it so.

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Old 07-08-2018, 03:53 AM
mrtho mrtho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
I've done it in casual rounds. In certain situations, when you're pretty close but obscured, and have to walk way around some bushes to reach your lie, it can help you get a better bead on where the basket is.

No one could find a rule that really seemed to make it illegal. The closest anyone could find was:


It's definitely being used as a directional aid.
But would you consider a person, or the basket itself, a device?



As for unfair competitive advantage: there's no reason it couldn't be done for any player that asked.
Maybe I think your caddy is a tool and a tool is a device....


sorry couldnt pass it up
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:59 AM
philstine philstine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
Who said it had anything to do with saving time?
JC17393:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
As for the advantage, it is something that any player can ask for at any time, so what advantage is gained? The only thing it really does is save time. If you disallow ringing the chains, the player will have to climb out of where ever he is, get a line on the target then go back to his lie to make his throw. Considering how deep in the stuff the player was today (believe it was Kevin Jones on the lead card), that could have added at least a couple minutes to the proceedings.

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Old 07-08-2018, 08:34 AM
philstine philstine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
Why exactly is this illegal? Like if I had my view of the target obscured by a hill, why would placing my bag down inline with the target as I make my way back to my lie be different than asking someone to rattle chains? If the latter is legal then why is the former method that gives the same result not?
Because you've given yourself a physical visual target between the lie and the basket that identifies a specific line/window to hit that assists in making the throw. Since your bag is not part of the course as you found it (800, it serves as a device that assists in making the throw, and therefore illegal.

A basket (or other target), on the other hand, is part of the course as you find it. An audible cue such as rattling the chains provides a momentary, non-material, cue to the target location to assist in determining the lie, but does not provide a physical cue to making the throw.
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  #20  
Old 07-08-2018, 08:50 AM
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Moving Obstacles 803.01 is the rule that would disallow players from having someone, caddie or "temporary" caddie, i.e., spectator or other player from rattling the chains. The small loophole would be if the chains were tangled and "equipment needed to be reset in proper working order" per 803.01 B.3.
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