#11  
Old 04-08-2017, 07:41 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.1
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,805
Niced 2,604 Times in 1,622 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Related question... from the pictures, would you agree I should be leaning forward more to perhaps make this easier?
Front shoulder more forward and closed.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-09-2017, 04:10 PM
unclevince's Avatar
unclevince unclevince is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Wv
Posts: 121
Niced 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
To elaborate with regards to the video: The early part of the video describing a forced motion in parts as a result of the beato drill makes sense to me, because that's how it feels. I need to build the muscle memory and then relax a bit and get back to firing the disc out the front as fast as I can.

But the second part of the video, the exercise and everything described... makes no sense. I don't get how that's supposed to help me, and how I'm supposed to incorporate that into a powerful throw, especially when I look at the desired end result:

Just to clarify, SW22 is talking about the upper arm angle created at the shoulder. In that image the angle at Will's elbow is being measured. His upper arm angle is great than 90.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:11 PM
stratedge's Avatar
stratedge stratedge is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Years Playing: 6.2
Courses Played: 62
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 145
Niced 7 Times in 7 Posts
Default

So... can someone help me understand how to break out of a habit of "hugging myself". I get that I'm not supposed to do it, and I get that the key is to not let that 90 degree angle at the shoulder break. It sounds so simple, but when I try to implement it it's just not happening.

What does it feel like to swing through while maintaining that angle? Does it feel like you're putting a huge amount of load on your tricep and/or upper back to hold strong while the weight of your arm wants to fold back? Or are you able to keep that angle because you lead hard with your elbow and then just let your shoulders follow somewhat softly? When you go from the reach back (straight arm) to the folded arm around the disc, are you creating a momentum of some kind that helps you sustain the upper arm form through the rotation?

I'm really, really frustrated... I went out into the field today knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my shoulder, threw 45 times but couldn't do it. For some reason I can't explain, no kind of thought process and focus on keeping my elbow out front, or a good firm 90 degree angle in the upper arm, would actually translate. I'd feel like maybe I did it, the disc would go normal distance or less, and then I watch the video and nope, shoulder collapsed while the disc was still in the pocket. What I feel I need right now is less repetition of the same what to do bio-mechanically, but a clue on how to think through it to make it happen.

If anyone has gone through this, tips very appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:17 PM
billyjacko's Avatar
billyjacko billyjacko is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Austin Tx
Courses Played: 5
Posts: 721
Niced 242 Times in 164 Posts
Default

Beto drill. Go out to the field and throw a hundred shots with absolutely zero back swing, then slowly incorporate it.


Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-11-2017, 01:11 AM
Putt for D'oh's Avatar
Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Years Playing: 4.3
Courses Played: 24
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,025
Niced 405 Times in 229 Posts
Default

Kind of answering out of order, but understand a lot of the frustration. From trying to teach myself throwing a disc, from this site mostly, and also coaching in other sports and a variety of participants there is normally many different ways that the same thing needs to be thought of or addressed, so the frustration is not uncommon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
So... can someone help me understand how to break out of a habit of "hugging myself". I get that I'm not supposed to do it, and I get that the key is to not let that 90 degree angle at the shoulder break. It sounds so simple, but when I try to implement it it's just not happening.
Not sure this is 100% along the right way, but i've made some big jumps the last couple months. I've needed to control extreme griplock shanks, great distance but no idea where the throws were going. A few threads here have helped as well as a single post here and there. The closed shoulder snap drill is one. NOT what you may be taking from it though. Its about making the disc move along a straight line. For me I was doing field work throwing from a blacktop at a school out across a soccer field. The blacktop had some painted lines. So I was trying to just like the board on the ground, but with a full throw keep the disc traveling on that line. A lot of this was also a lot of the threads on wide arm reach back. This has put so much in the right direction. From the wide arm reach back, what i'm focusing on is not the throw, but keeping the disc back as I hit the brace and not so much pulling the disc through but directing it into the pec elbow out. With the wide reachback it feels more like pulling the disc into your chest than punching the elbow toward the target. that is for me anyway. From there the disc just seems to launch out where (another thread) whip my hand out pointing my thumb at the target. The Beto Drill and closed shoulder snap built some muscle memory for the ejection but for me, getting that disc moving in a straight line from reachback to target.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
What does it feel like to swing through while maintaining that angle? Does it feel like you're putting a huge amount of load on your tricep and/or upper back to hold strong while the weight of your arm wants to fold back? Or are you able to keep that angle because you lead hard with your elbow and then just let your shoulders follow somewhat softly? When you go from the reach back (straight arm) to the folded arm around the disc, are you creating a momentum of some kind that helps you sustain the upper arm form through the rotation?
Like I said, what i'm feeling is more like directing the disc into my pec, and from there when i've timed it properly it shoots out. When its right I feel a good stretch in the lats at reachback but not a lot of specific muscle use from there.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-11-2017, 01:14 AM
storm_32123 storm_32123 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 12
Niced 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
So... can someone help me understand how to break out of a habit of "hugging myself". I get that I'm not supposed to do it, and I get that the key is to not let that 90 degree angle at the shoulder break. It sounds so simple, but when I try to implement it it's just not happening.

What does it feel like to swing through while maintaining that angle? Does it feel like you're putting a huge amount of load on your tricep and/or upper back to hold strong while the weight of your arm wants to fold back? Or are you able to keep that angle because you lead hard with your elbow and then just let your shoulders follow somewhat softly? When you go from the reach back (straight arm) to the folded arm around the disc, are you creating a momentum of some kind that helps you sustain the upper arm form through the rotation?

I'm really, really frustrated... I went out into the field today knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my shoulder, threw 45 times but couldn't do it. For some reason I can't explain, no kind of thought process and focus on keeping my elbow out front, or a good firm 90 degree angle in the upper arm, would actually translate. I'd feel like maybe I did it, the disc would go normal distance or less, and then I watch the video and nope, shoulder collapsed while the disc was still in the pocket. What I feel I need right now is less repetition of the same what to do bio-mechanically, but a clue on how to think through it to make it happen.

If anyone has gone through this, tips very appreciated.
What I realized is that a lot of velocity can be generated with only a bent arm and without a significant reachback. The key for me was to slowly incorporate more shoulder rotation after 1) how to time the hit from the strict position I mentioned; and 2) how to move more linearly into the brace. I like to watch slow-mo videos of Ken Griffey Jr. and videos on straight-line release. I feel like mimicking Griffey's swing translates well to DG and the straight-line release stuff makes a lot of sense to me. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:07 AM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.1
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,805
Niced 2,604 Times in 1,622 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
So... can someone help me understand how to break out of a habit of "hugging myself". I get that I'm not supposed to do it, and I get that the key is to not let that 90 degree angle at the shoulder break. It sounds so simple, but when I try to implement it it's just not happening.

What does it feel like to swing through while maintaining that angle? Does it feel like you're putting a huge amount of load on your tricep and/or upper back to hold strong while the weight of your arm wants to fold back? Or are you able to keep that angle because you lead hard with your elbow and then just let your shoulders follow somewhat softly? When you go from the reach back (straight arm) to the folded arm around the disc, are you creating a momentum of some kind that helps you sustain the upper arm form through the rotation?

I'm really, really frustrated... I went out into the field today knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my shoulder, threw 45 times but couldn't do it. For some reason I can't explain, no kind of thought process and focus on keeping my elbow out front, or a good firm 90 degree angle in the upper arm, would actually translate. I'd feel like maybe I did it, the disc would go normal distance or less, and then I watch the video and nope, shoulder collapsed while the disc was still in the pocket. What I feel I need right now is less repetition of the same what to do bio-mechanically, but a clue on how to think through it to make it happen.

If anyone has gone through this, tips very appreciated.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...ad.php?t=91096


Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:30 PM
stratedge's Avatar
stratedge stratedge is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Years Playing: 6.2
Courses Played: 62
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 145
Niced 7 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
A few threads here have helped as well as a single post here and there. The closed shoulder snap drill is one. NOT what you may be taking from it though. Its about making the disc move along a straight line. For me I was doing field work throwing from a blacktop at a school out across a soccer field. The blacktop had some painted lines. So I was trying to just like the board on the ground, but with a full throw keep the disc traveling on that line. A lot of this was also a lot of the threads on wide arm reach back. This has put so much in the right direction. From the wide arm reach back, what i'm focusing on is not the throw, but keeping the disc back as I hit the brace and not so much pulling the disc through but directing it into the pec elbow out. With the wide reachback it feels more like pulling the disc into your chest than punching the elbow toward the target. that is for me anyway. From there the disc just seems to launch out where (another thread) whip my hand out pointing my thumb at the target. The Beto Drill and closed shoulder snap built some muscle memory for the ejection but for me, getting that disc moving in a straight line from reachback to target.

Like I said, what i'm feeling is more like directing the disc into my pec, and from there when i've timed it properly it shoots out. When its right I feel a good stretch in the lats at reachback but not a lot of specific muscle use from there.
So first of all, thank you, I think you are understanding best where I'm coming from and the sort of fresh perspective on the relationship between the drill and the outcome is the kind of stuff I need right now. So a couple clarifying questions if you don't mind:
  1. With regards to the first bolded part, can you elaborate on what it is that trying to follow on the straight line is doing for you? Such as, is it causing you to curl up the disc within your wrist/elbow better? When I think about pulling the disc on a straight line, what I think (visualizing it) I would end up doing is the same throw but with a more rigid form that creates less snap, because I would be wrapping myself around the disc (wrist on the outside, elbow out front) less if my goal was to keep the disc straight. So I'm missing something, clearly.
  2. In the second bold part, can I interpret that to mean you're doing less of an arm powered pull from the reach back to get it to the pec, and instead using more of them momentum of the brace to kind of have it lurch forward with less effort from the arm? I can see how this would make it easier to accelerate later through the throw; I've often felt like I'm trying too hard, too early in this phase of the throw, but trying to make the reach back to pec more effortless has been easier said than done.
  3. What exactly do you define as the "wide arm reach back"? Is this reaching out away from your body as opposed to straight backwards?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-11-2017, 08:19 PM
billyjacko's Avatar
billyjacko billyjacko is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Austin Tx
Courses Played: 5
Posts: 721
Niced 242 Times in 164 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
perspective on the relationship between the drill and the outcome is the kind of stuff I need right now.
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but have you actually done the Beto drill for an extended period? Like, an entire hour long field session where the only throws are from the chest usually helps most people get it. Use slow discs with a lot of glide (think nothing more than a Leopard). Just throw from the chest, then slowly work in a reach back. Reach back very very slow, pull through very very slow until your in the 'power pocket' and rip the disc as hard as you can from there. You'll start to feel it, and hopefully be able to incorporate it into full speed throws.

Loopghost recomends trying pulling the disc outside to into the chest (and I can see how that would help.) Also, he describes it as an elbow smack then a back hand slap.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
 

  #20  
Old 04-12-2017, 11:09 AM
Putt for D'oh's Avatar
Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Years Playing: 4.3
Courses Played: 24
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,025
Niced 405 Times in 229 Posts
Default

I'll try not to ramble too much, its been a up and down process for me the last couple years and hard to explain some of this without going into too much detail about where I started. Wish i'd taken video a year and a half ago to have something to compare how far i've come, all through reading threads like this and self analyzing.
Full disclosure what I want to do, what I think i'm doing and what i'm actually doing is probably not all the same, but I know i'm getting closer and I know when i'm off.

Funny I know I've watched the loopghost / Hyzerunibomber video above on Slowing down the Beto drill, but whenever I did it didn't click with me. Re-watching now, he goes over a lot of what i'm trying to say. The wide arm I searched and I thought there were threads specifically about it, but it must be lost inside other critique threads with some posts here and there by SW22 or Hyzerunibomer or Slowplastic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
elaborate on what it is that trying to follow on the straight line is doing for you? ... When I think about pulling the disc on a straight line, what I think (visualizing it) I would end up doing is the same throw but with a more rigid form that creates less snap, because I would be wrapping myself around the disc (wrist on the outside, elbow out front) less if my goal was to keep the disc straight. So I'm missing something, clearly.
I can't say which post or when, this to clicked with me, but when it did it was huge. The disc's movement, all the force and momentum is in a straight line. If looking down from above at a throw you don't want the disc to be moving in any kind of arc from reachback to rip, its all linear. I was using the straight line on the ground to help me get the feeling of this.

There is always a few different ways things process for people. Its funny Hyzerunibomer has a ton of good info on here, his blog and youtube videos... BUT he teaches in a different way than I learn I guess. I run into this all the time with my daughter and our goalie training. There was a specific instance one of his drills about squeezing the knees and sticking the butt out. Didn't work for me I didn't get the why and didn't get the right feeling. Later SW22 on a form thread with someone was talking about balance and going into some detail and it all clicked for me. Low and behold I approached it differently with weight transfer and my butt sticks out a bit. SAME with getting the disc on a straight line. The last video posted "Disc Golf Backhand Extension" he is explaining what to do with your arm to get the end result of putting the disc on a straight line, getting linear motion. I don't feel any of that. No elbow jab, no backhand smack. I start with visualizing a straight line and making the disc follow that path and let the body do what it needs to do to do it right. Kinda the same with the Beto drill, wasnt doing much for me, but I also had some flexibility issues. I tried this yesterday and realized having the disc deep in the right pec is way more natural and comfortable now than it was 8 to 10 months ago.
I cant find the video, maybe I just didnt recognize it right away, if anyone else is reading this far, its a MikeC video hes indoors I thought, where rather than simply the Beto drill and holding the disc in the right pec, hes taking the disc and moving it from left shoulder and sliding deep into the right pec. That really is more the feeling Im getting directing the disc into that position.
Quote:
In the second bold part, can I interpret that to mean you're doing less of an arm powered pull from the reach back to get it to the pec, and instead using more of them momentum of the brace to kind of have it lurch forward with less effort from the arm? I can see how this would make it easier to accelerate later through the throw; I've often felt like I'm trying too hard, too early in this phase of the throw, but trying to make the reach back to pec more effortless has been easier said than done.
Ideally I think. What Im actually doing is still probably a lot of muscling the disc but I know when Im throwing well I dont have any arm or shoulder fatigue after a round or 2. It really is a whip of the hand. I understand the trying to hard, accelerating early. The mental queue I really go back to is trying to look as effortless as possible. Slow is smooth, smooth is far. Pretend youve got a bunch of people watching you drive, and rather than trying to grunt out the max distance you can you want them to say wow smooth! Dont worry about being powerful, try and be smooth and effortless.
Quote:
What exactly do you define as the "wide arm reach back"? Is this reaching out away from your body as opposed to straight backwards?
Nate Doss I guess is the prototypical wide reach back. As in the slowed down beto drill video where he talks about not pulling the disc from behind but just directing it into the pec, I guess that was a bit of an independent ah-ha moment for me, but i'm sure i've seen it said on this forum and in videos countless times. A lot of these things have just been slow realizations so the progression or which video made it finally click i can't really say.
What it did for me was simply helped relax my shoulders and focus better on reaching back with my torso and less with my hand/disc. I think this clicked when there was a lot of discussions about pretending you have 200 lbs on your shoulders. Putting a broomstick across your shoulders like a squat bar, it helped with balance and alignment and for me when I grabbed a disc I naturally fell into a more wide reachback. I think it helps me from hugging myself and starting off with moving the disc in an arc to get it to the right pec, it can be a straight line into the power pocket and a straight line to the target.
Hope that wasnt too rambly or TLDR

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
90 degree Bent Elbow on backswing BirdieMachine Technique & Strategy 4 02-09-2015 07:07 PM
60 degree wedge codyroberts18 The Flea Market 8 07-06-2012 09:20 PM
Ever seen a 360 Degree course like THIS? Gamecock Disc Golf Courses 96 01-13-2011 03:50 AM
55 degree water is not the same as 55 degree air scarpfish General Disc Golf Chat 27 11-10-2009 10:45 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.