#181  
Old 10-17-2019, 12:23 AM
JohtoVillage JohtoVillage is offline
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
No one competing for a prestigious championship should have to compete along with someone with a recreational level game.
I would think better about this rule if this were the actual reason given by the BOD for implementing it as I think Nate's abbreviated reasoning is lacking, especially the time and money arguments as has already been pointed out by others.
Maybe go back and read my post. I literally said the above thing you are referencing that I did not say. For clarification, I said: -Avoids situations where touring players play with novice rated players who throw shots that slow down the group enough to cause touring pros to lose focus. Imagine a wooded course such as WR Jackson and an 850 rated player playing that course. The group would spend considerable time looking for discs in the woods.

That's essentially saying what this poster said. We want to avoid someone competing for a prestigious championship playing alongside someone who is a recreational level player.

There are a lot of things being posted that aren't really being stated properly. This is honestly the main reason I stopped reading DGCR but I decided to come back and give it a chance again. But seriously guys, don't post things that you are stating as fact if you are not certain it is fact. Just a few things to clarify:

-Idlewild did fill. In fact, there were 9 people on the waiting list at one point in time. I have messages between myself and the TD if anyone cares to see them. The TD was able to accommodate some very last minute additions based on many people dropping and then him being able to add some additional spots within ten days of the event.
-While it is true that some players have sponsors that pay for their entries, almost all of them do so on a reimbursement basis. That means that if Player A plays an A Tier or above, he gets his entry reimbursed after he or she plays that event. Yes, some companies do buy a Pro Tour pass for their players, but this is not widespread and this only affects DGPT events and not NT events or PDGA Majors. And there were only 20 to 22 total players who purchased DGPT Player passes last year, and many of them were not touring pros.

Its not quite accurate to accuse our touring pros of being lazy and not on the ball when it comes to signing up for events. MANY of them literally live paycheck to paycheck trying to make their dreams happen. Nearly ALL of the FPO players live paycheck to paycheck. Only a few are really making it. A lot of them have great sponsors but its still a challenge to stay on Tour. A lot of them depend on cashing at certain events and getting those entries reimbursed to signup for tournaments later in the year. Also many of our touring pros stay in a vehicle year round and sometimes do not have good access to internet capabilities (ie, James Conrad). Lets not be so quick to judge our touring pros. It is a struggle for them, and they absolutely deserve a spot in our premier events over a recreational rated player who happens to want to try to play with the big boys. I have talked to MANY of the players over the years, and I constantly get messages about holding spots for them for Ledgestone. I understand their struggle, and anyone who is criticizing our players for not having the money to signup for an event needs to back off just a little bit.

A few more points:
-I will reiterate once again that MANY of our events are filling up. When registration opened for Santa Cruz for 970+ rated players the event was already full this year. Some people dropped out so others got in. BSF filled up; Ledgestone filled up; Maple Hill was nearly full; GMC was nearly full; DGLO was full; European Open was full; Idlewild was full; HOFC was full (a few top players decided to play at the last second and had to get in off of the waiting list); GBO was full. You get where I am going with this. We now have a RECORD number of 1000+ rated players. Players are getting better, and our Elite Series events are filling up more quickly. That trend will continue in 2020.

Quote:
Will someone with no rating who is new to the PDGA be allowed to play in one of these events?
Absolutely not; why should a new player to the PDGA be allowed to play our top tier events without a rating and no knowledge of the rules, competition procedures, etc? They can go play an A Tier or any other event as a Professional, but that person needs time to learn how to play competitive disc golf, and an Elite Series event is not the place. Our touring pros have spoken loud and clear that they wanted this cleaned up. 900 is just the starting point.

Quote:
The question shouldn't be why is sub-900 guy in while Conrad is not, it should be why didn't Conrad get in when he had a chance?
Why do we keep criticizing our touring pros? A lot of them lose money at many events they travel to. A lot of them travel in cheap RV's, which come with major expenses along the way. A lot of our touring pros are living paycheck to paycheck, and its a tough life.

Quote:
And speaking of Pro Worlds this year, here's an underappreciated set of facts: Lloyd Weema placed ahead of 8 competitors in the MPO division. Eight. And those 8 people had ratings that ranged from 927 to 996. So maybe this rating threshold of 900 shouldn't be as precious as some are making it out to be.
A fact checker would call this statement "True but very misleading." Lloyd was dead last amongst the competitors who finished and his many throws backed up the field at Eureka and Northwood each morning he teed off. That is an undisputed fact. I have nothing against Lloyd, but elite courses are really tough for sub 900 rated players, and honestly impossible for sub 800 rated players.

Quote:
Plus there are plenty of 950 rated guys in MPO that have no chance of cashing in these big events.

Why allow them to play? They could just as easily spend a round hacking through the woods and slowing down play.
If we are actually going to argue about the skill difference between a 750 rated player and a 950 rated player....

Some quick stats:
-A 950 rated player cashed at Las Vegas
-A 958 rated player cashed at the Memorial (and averaged 1010 golf)
-A 955 rated player cashed at GBO

I certainly appreciate all of the feedback, but it touches a bad nerve when I see all of these comments criticizing our touring pros for not being more on the ball and registering for events more quickly. I constantly get feedback from these touring pros (via running two big events, between being on the BOD, chairing the Majors/NT committee, etc). Lets cut them so slack.

Also, I certainly didn't want this to be the place where I shared information on this change, so please keep an eye out for an article we will release that will explain this change (and other changes we made to Majors/NT's) more in depth.

Definitely appreciate everyone's feedback and passion!

P.S. We will be hosting a Majors/NT Summit in January. A lot of great things will be discussed, so I will plan on posting a thread here soon to garner feedback on anything you want to see discussed within the committee.
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  #182  
Old 10-17-2019, 12:41 AM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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What are we talking about? One round where a top level pro might have to play with a low rated player? One round? If it's more than that, clearly the top rated pro has other issues.

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  #183  
Old 10-17-2019, 07:36 AM
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damagedLIVER damagedLIVER is offline
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So many Social Justice Warriors coming to Lloyd's defense....



F#@*ING PATHETIC!!!!
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  #184  
Old 10-17-2019, 08:00 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohtoVillage View Post
Why do we keep criticizing our touring pros? A lot of them lose money at many events they travel to. A lot of them travel in cheap RV's, which come with major expenses along the way. A lot of our touring pros are living paycheck to paycheck, and its a tough life.


I certainly appreciate all of the feedback, but it touches a bad nerve when I see all of these comments criticizing our touring pros for not being more on the ball and registering for events more quickly. I constantly get feedback from these touring pros (via running two big events, between being on the BOD, chairing the Majors/NT committee, etc). Lets cut them so slack.
Yeah... they were just hanging around their local pitch and putt then that draft notice showed up in the mail and off to Vietn... uhhh tour. Is it a tough row to hoe? Sure. Did they choose to do it? Yup.

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  #185  
Old 10-17-2019, 09:46 AM
mmblink86 mmblink86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Yeah... they were just hanging around their local pitch and putt then that draft notice showed up in the mail and off to Vietn... uhhh tour. Is it a tough row to hoe? Sure. Did they choose to do it? Yup.

seriously.

can't break even at events, 1100 rated pro?

can't afford to maintain your vehicle, 1100 rated pro?

can't create a calendar with reminders for timely event registration, 1100 rated pro?

oh what, don't have money to timely register, 1100 rated pro?




maybe you should stop touring.

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Last edited by mmblink86; 10-17-2019 at 09:50 AM.
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  #186  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:04 AM
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wolfmandragon wolfmandragon is online now
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I am not quoting that wall of text but

"Imagine a wooded course such as WR Jackson and an 850 rated player playing that course. The group would spend considerable time looking for discs in the woods. "


This does not follow. I would probably be 850 or so rated. I am pretty sure I could play WR Jackson (I have local courses tighter than it) and spend less time looking for my discs than most of the top pros. Of course others might get tired of me driving with speed 6 drivers for a distance of 300 feet each...

Memorial or the MVP Open would be much harder for someone whom is accurate but lacks distance.

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  #187  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:13 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohtoVillage View Post
Why do we keep criticizing our touring pros? A lot of them lose money at many events they travel to. A lot of them travel in cheap RV's, which come with major expenses along the way. A lot of our touring pros are living paycheck to paycheck, and its a tough life.
Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

I criticize our touring pros because they often seem to have an attitude of entitlement that we (the PDGA membership, TDs in particular) should be catering our events to their convenience. And it bothers me when TDs and the PDGA bend to their will unnecessarily. And the excuse that they're cash poor and can't sign up in a timely manner despite exclusive windows of opportunity anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months long is ridiculous and citing it is weak.

If they don't have the money to sign up for these events in a timely manner, when they have ample time and opportunity to do so before anyone else, they shouldn't be asking for more preferential treatment, they should be re-assessing whether being a touring player is the right choice for them. No one is making them live "paycheck to paycheck" or drive around the country in a cheap RV. If they can't afford to do it, and that includes being able to secure their places in all the tournaments they intend to play in and earn income at, maybe they're in the wrong line of work.

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  #188  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:17 AM
elmexdela elmexdela is offline
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maybe its the pdga not allowing to grow the hobby

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  #189  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:42 AM
perklc perklc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

I criticize our touring pros because they often seem to have an attitude of entitlement that we (the PDGA membership, TDs in particular) should be catering our events to their convenience. And it bothers me when TDs and the PDGA bend to their will unnecessarily. And the excuse that they're cash poor and can't sign up in a timely manner despite exclusive windows of opportunity anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months long is ridiculous and citing it is weak.

If they don't have the money to sign up for these events in a timely manner, when they have ample time and opportunity to do so before anyone else, they shouldn't be asking for more preferential treatment, they should be re-assessing whether being a touring player is the right choice for them. No one is making them live "paycheck to paycheck" or drive around the country in a cheap RV. If they can't afford to do it, and that includes being able to secure their places in all the tournaments they intend to play in and earn income at, maybe they're in the wrong line of work.
I think more pros should be taking the Dickerson route where they clean up locally/regionally to build skills and (presumably) their bank accounts and then playing events that are either too big to miss or fit better with their strengths.

This isn't exactly a new idea, but I think Dickerson is doing it well at the moment.

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  #190  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:45 AM
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I think the touring pros who choose to live this life would get more support if they did more of the volunteer work so they can make more money instead of relying on the backs of sub-900 volunteers who get nothing for their hard work.

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