#21  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:05 PM
jakebake91 jakebake91 is offline
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Originally Posted by ThrowBot View Post

We can't all be out there Stardogging stuff.
That's how one peaks too quickly.
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  #22  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:13 AM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
While I understand the idea behind dismissing/ignoring local reviews because so many of them have a severe homer bias, something locals can (and in my opinion, should) do far more effectively than travelers can, is provide a perspective of consistency of course conditions.
How often is this course flooded?
How well does it drain after a storm?
How often is long grass a problem?
How good is the park/proprietor about trimming back growth/general maintenance?
It's not just the "homer bias" of reviews of locals that undercuts their usefulness. And I agree that homers have the benefit of the knowledge that you've pointed out.

But locals also have the familiarity with a course that lets them ignore, or completely fail to notice, things that are important to travelers. Locals may never notice a lack of tee signs or the information that they lack. Someone whose first round at a course was in a mini or league and who never needed help with navigation may not realize the navigational nightmare that a course presents to a first time user. If your introduction to disc golf came on a course with no tee boxes, that may not be something worth mentioning in a review of that course. No bathroom? Locals always come prepared. Does a local that plays a course every evening because he learned long ago that dust and dew don't mix well forget to mention another con in his review.

Locals sometimes adhere to local customary rules surrounding OB that "fix" a design issue but that a traveler may have no way of knowing. These types of issues are endless.

By contrast, a traveler is much more likely to review the things that are going to be important to another traveler.

So, while I don't disagree with you that locals can have a special insight into a course's character over time (and everything else you've mentioned), their special familiarity with a course can itself be problematic as far as reviews are concerned.

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  #23  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:59 AM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
It's not just the "homer bias" of reviews of locals that undercuts their usefulness. And I agree that homers have the benefit of the knowledge that you've pointed out.

But locals also have the familiarity with a course that lets them ignore, or completely fail to notice, things that are important to travelers. Locals may never notice a lack of tee signs or the information that they lack. Someone whose first round at a course was in a mini or league and who never needed help with navigation may not realize the navigational nightmare that a course presents to a first time user. If your introduction to disc golf came on a course with no tee boxes, that may not be something worth mentioning in a review of that course. No bathroom? Locals always come prepared. Does a local that plays a course every evening because he learned long ago that dust and dew don't mix well forget to mention another con in his review.

Locals sometimes adhere to local customary rules surrounding OB that "fix" a design issue but that a traveler may have no way of knowing. These types of issues are endless.

By contrast, a traveler is much more likely to review the things that are going to be important to another traveler.

So, while I don't disagree with you that locals can have a special insight into a course's character over time (and everything else you've mentioned), their special familiarity with a course can itself be problematic as far as reviews are concerned.
But hopefully the locals who review their own courses can maybe shed some light on how the locals get around some of these things right? Bad reviews are bad, well written reviews are good, regardless of first time traveler or local or hell even the course designer.

It seems to me a good mix of local and traveler reviews are good for everyone, especially if the local reviews can simply take a step back and review their course from the point of view of a traveler. Poorly written reviews come in all shapes and sizes so the real hope is just to eliminate unhelpful reviews.

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  #24  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:26 PM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
It's not just the "homer bias" of reviews of locals that undercuts their usefulness. And I agree that homers have the benefit of the knowledge that you've pointed out.

But locals also have the familiarity with a course that lets them ignore, or completely fail to notice, things that are important to travelers. Locals may never notice a lack of tee signs or the information that they lack. Someone whose first round at a course was in a mini or league and who never needed help with navigation may not realize the navigational nightmare that a course presents to a first time user. If your introduction to disc golf came on a course with no tee boxes, that may not be something worth mentioning in a review of that course. No bathroom? Locals always come prepared. Does a local that plays a course every evening because he learned long ago that dust and dew don't mix well forget to mention another con in his review.

Locals sometimes adhere to local customary rules surrounding OB that "fix" a design issue but that a traveler may have no way of knowing. These types of issues are endless.

By contrast, a traveler is much more likely to review the things that are going to be important to another traveler.

So, while I don't disagree with you that locals can have a special insight into a course's character over time (and everything else you've mentioned), their special familiarity with a course can itself be problematic as far as reviews are concerned.
This happens now and then. I've rated some courses pretty harshly and got a bunch of down-votes in the process from what are presumably course homers. It's like they've become blind to the issues. When that outsider comes in and points out obvious flaws the homers become petulant and try to exact some measure of revenge for their beloved course with some down-voting. I find that crap humorous.

That said, I try VERY hard to ignore or not let negative reviews of my home course affect me in a similar fashion. Its so tempting to toss out a down-vote for a a negative review in spite of it being well written and thought out.
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:48 PM
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blazerico blazerico is offline
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which course/review sparked this rant?
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2019, 01:05 PM
bayouace bayouace is offline
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My gripe is a Thumbs Down for an obvious humerous comment comparing climate at the course and where the reviewer calls home.
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:23 PM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Originally Posted by sisyphus View Post
...it does dig into my mild tendencies toward OCD that I still have a lot of courses played that I may never review...

seriously. and the first time a course i hadn't gotten around to reviewing went extinct.... triggered!



doofenshmirtz hit the nail on the head in his last post. as a course bagging reviewer, i definitely see both sides of the argument. i try to use the Course Conditions update as much as i can remember and to distinguish between design and conditions. i like to think i do a good job separating them; if thumbs are feedback then i guess i am.
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  #28  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:34 PM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellsbranch250 View Post
Personally there are several things that i will note in my cons section that make no impact on my score. First for example, ants, snakes, ticks, poisonous plants, etc, have zero influence on my scores. For course beauty, i try to envision what the course would look like during the summer. I cant think of any courses that look better with all the leaves off the trees (maybe a desert course?). I do not penalize a course just because i showed up in winter. I also do not take rating points off for flooded fairways or drainage issues with the exception of one local course that has been flooded 15 of my 24 appearances. I once gave a 4 rating to a course with several flooded fairway. I will research recent precipitation amounts. That particular course had 20 inches of rain over a 2 week period. That's not the courses fault. The same goes for overgrown fairways. When its been wet, They can't mow the grass. I try my best to overlook these issues cause they are all seasonal, temporary or "you're out in the woods you whiny bitch" issues.


i think this might be a factor a lot of people overlook as review readers.

i do the same thing: listing things that are worth knowing but don't affect my rating. a big one there for me is navigation. i only ding a course for navigation if it is really really bad. most of the time there is a map somewhere and i consider it on me to do the research ahead of time, particularly when i'm traveling. even without a map, experienced players tend to have a sense of design and can follow trails.

but when i go to review that course and give it a poor rating (because i think the course is poorly designed not because of the navigation) locals might read that and think "this guy is just pissy cuz he got lost, plus he probably threw +12. shoulda just played with a local."

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  #29  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:34 PM
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tallpaul tallpaul is offline
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Originally Posted by blazerico View Post
which course/review sparked this rant?
I believe this was omitted intentionally; which was a good move.

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  #30  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:56 PM
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blazerico blazerico is offline
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I believe this was omitted intentionally; which was a good move.
someone could message me
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