#31  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:28 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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2. I also noticed that the harder throwers are consistently having discs just completely turn right or way right as they start moving into -2, -3, and -4 turn discs, whereas everyone else continues to get a nice S curve to the right and then a soft fade to the left. Is that because their arm speed is too high for that much turn? Do higher speed arm players usually do better with a more neutral or slightly overstable disc, as long as they can throw fundamentally well with a flat nose angle and little to no hyzer angle?
Basically an "ideal" flight for driver shots is typically -1/2 style. Where they ride a bit to the right for glide and aim forgiveness, and fade back enough that you know it always will finish. Plus it has enough stability to put up with a little mistake or a little wind. Obviously you need a range of stabilities in your bag, but a -1/2 flying disc for your arm speed can be shaped in many ways.

The harder you can throw, the more overstable a disc you need to fly like this. A disc that flies -1/2 at 300' may fly -3/1 at 375'+.

Some discs are also just "better" at a wider power range than others. These are the discs that are widely recommended. Like a Buzzz or a Roc, both fly pretty straight no matter if you throw it 250' or 320'. A Teebird will be quite straight at 300' and at 400'...it will go as far as you are capable of throwing. Obviously the fade will be a bit more at 300' and it won't fight wind as well for a 400' thrower, but it has a very wide power range of use. Other discs that are beginner friendly may become unpredictable for higher arm speed players.

Also when you are able to throw far, you don't need glide or turn for shorter shots. Say there's a 270' open hole, I can literally throw any disc in my bag that far. I'm not going to throw a driver because it would be so underpowered it would fade out in a weird way at that speed for me. I could throw a putter flat/straight at the basket with the appropriate 270' of power. I could throw a mid with 270' of power, which is a lower % effort since the disc goes farther. Or, I could throw an overstable fairway driver or OS mid with a more full % shot on a hyzer, and have it eat up my power while guaranteeing it will fade left. Plus it has less glide and will ignore any wind.

This is like hitting a sand wedge at 80% vs. a 9 iron WAY powered down. One shot is much more consistent than the other, when your game is at the point you can take advantage of it.

So yes a higher arm speed player needs a more overstable designed disc to handle their velocity. But, they can also use inherently overstable and lower glide discs to fly more consistent lines. If you can throw 300' easily, then it's more consistent to throw 300' with a moderately overstable disc that ignores wind than a disc that has to be thrown dead flat and straight. You need to be able to throw the flat/straight shot, but it's harder to execute.
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:48 PM
Thumber99 Thumber99 is offline
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I found lighter discs (150g) were more manageable for my beginner friends
that were learning the ropes.

Also, learn/study the basic throwing forms of Hyzer and Anhyzer for backhand throws.

There is also the different methods of power and control grips to consider, and the pull through and wrist snap follow through styles.

I would recommend a 150g Discraft XL for someone's first driver. It is very neutral and
forgives throwing errors...

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  #33  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:17 PM
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I like that you're super into this and asking lots of good questions. I really think you should video yourself and start a thread in the form section, you'll get responses as nerdy and detailed as you could want there.

Haha, yeah. I'm a very passionate inquisitive person who goes ALL out when I get into something. And if I ever figure out a way to video myself, I might do that. I'll want to wait a bit until I can actually throw a decent disc first. But yeah, that might help a lot, or make me want to crawl back into a hole with everyone's negative critical comments, haha.

Firstly, technique is DEFINITELY the most important. I don't care how strong someone is, I could take some pro weight lifter who could toss me into the air and I can basically guarantee you I out throw them. Yep, 70% effort I'd put a Sidewinder 350+ no problem...I can approach 380-400' with them if I hit it right. I'm like 5'10 and 160 pounds, and my form isn't perfect, that's for sure.

I understand what you and some others are saying about strength vs technique. But what I'm trying to say is, I am really good at golf, tennis, and softball. And Im very athletic, coordinated, and strong. I understand the movements and mechanics of these movements really well. And Disc golf, while not exactly the same, has a LOT of similarities to those sports in regards to weight transfers, pivoting, movement, etc. So all I'm trying to impress, is that it confuses me how I can be so bad at this, when I'm so good at those other things. And they didn't take me long to pick up, and then become really good at them. So I'm just impatient I guess and wondering why it's taking so long to throw well, after field throwing a few times (about 1.5 hrs each time) and a round.

If your form is good, then you can take advantage of your levers and athleticism. Does a golfer swing the club as hard as possible from backswing through the ball? No way, unless they want to slice it as far right as they get in forward carry. You need to put the power in efficiently, at the right time. The more you get it to feel like your golf or tennis balance and leverage, the better you'll be.

No argument here. Totally understand this and agree. But Tiger Woods will always hit the ball farther than any scrawny 150lb kid, even if they have amazing technique. Because he has strength, athleticism, and technique. But I totally understand about the feel and getting all the timing, weight transfer, and technique down first before I can be good.

I think in that video they had a headwind, so the discs were acting far more understable than they normally would. Sidewinders and Roadrunners will turn right from a hyzer flip release, but they can definitely get 350-400+ without burning into the ground way right. Of course beat in ones thrown intentionally to get roller angles, or with mild+ wind will turn over uncontrollably. Lots of those players in the video can throw very hard, so they weren't gassing those shots. Trying to show more "typical" flights, even though they are still throwing those discs farther than most people can.

The best way to get straight shots is with a disc that has some turn, thrown with some hyzer. Once you can throw nose down, you'll see why that works so well and why it's the most fun shot. Pop it out on that angle, and let the disc glide up, ride right, and fade back a little. You set the velocity and angle, and watch it do its thing for what feels like 10 seconds.
Once again, ALL of this info is SO great and stuff I don't know. I'm soaking it in like a sponge man! I love it! I'll just DM you when I have more questions instead of posting on here. Since this is supposed to be a Disc recommendation thread, haha.
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:24 PM
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BuzzzChief BuzzzChief is offline
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I’m good at golf, tennis and disc golf. But man do I suck at hitting a softball. So it’s possible to be good at all but one of those.

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Old 04-09-2019, 09:31 PM
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SuperWookie SuperWookie is offline
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And stuff like this found here in this thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=132976 and the stuff found here you posted in this site: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...ttoripit.shtml is amazing! I need to just be reading this stuff non stop at work all day long and then go out and practice when I have 30 mins or an hr! Thanks for all the info everyone. I'm so glad I found this community here! Hopefully, in the not so distant future, I won't have to be asking all these stupid newb questions anymore, haha. I appreciate your patience and help!

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  #36  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:33 PM
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I’m good at golf, tennis and disc golf. But man do I suck at hitting a softball. So it’s possible to be good at all but one of those.
Hahaha, fair enough
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:33 PM
ILUVSMGS18 ILUVSMGS18 is offline
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I've seen threads where the person was barely throwing 200', and posted a vid. I suggest doing it sooner rather than later, as bad muscle memory is hard to overcome, the more it is ingrained. I'm just waiting for the weather here to stabilize before I post my form (I throw 350-400, but want to be throwing 425' consistently with 450-475' not out of the possibilities). I personally posted one a year or two back and never followes through on the drills that I was recommended, and as a result never really gained any consistent distance. Doing a bunch of drills won't help if you don't know what you need to work on.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:30 AM
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Reniger Reniger is offline
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Oh man. He just went full Bania. This dude is gonna do fine here.

I know you've already gotten a ton of great advice, but from a comfort perspective, there are a lot of what is called "Superclass" discs out there as well that are often more intuitive for people with a Frisbee or Ultimate background. The Innova Condor, Supernova, and Zephyr, the Discraft Ultrastar, and Lightning B-17 and F6 are all "oversized" compared to modern golf discs and fly much more like Frisbees. While they aren't ideal for perfecting form to throw a modern driver 400', they are very, very fun (I often play rounds with only these 24cm+ discs - mostly Zephyr and Condor) they also are great for people with different backgrounds who can put together a more comfortable round while learning.

Cheers, Wookie!

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  #39  
Old 04-10-2019, 11:34 AM
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So I'm REALLY liking a few pros throwing style a lot! It just looks great to my eye and is very unique. The first guys I was TOLD to watch were Will Shusterick and obviously Paul McBeth. I've watched at least 10 different instructional videos by Will and a lot of tournie footage of Paul. Will is just a great guy with flawless form, and very helpful. But those two are a little too perfect for me though, haha. I also saw James Conrad early on and liked how he throws, but after learning more about the Disc golf throw, I realize I don't want to throw like he does. I like more of the slow smooth wind ups with a build up and fast SNAP at the end. Conrad seems like he really has more of around the body throwing motion and less of a pull through snap. I usually tend to gravitate towards interesting styles that are a little different and usually very smooth, but still with amazing results. Think Freddy Couples, David Duval, Ken Griffey Jr or Jim Edmonds swings. Not how the experts would ever teach a newbie how to play, but incredible results with effortless power.

And the first guy I saw throw with such a unique and beautifully smooth technique and great release is Juhani Vainio! Dude has the most interesting beautiful throwing motion I've ever seen and REALLY gets his back to the target! I love it! I'm going to mess around and see how his style works for me and if it helps or hurts. I love his extreme turn and how he keeps his back to the target line a LONG time right until the last second and then the disc just glides out of his hands with so much spin, but looks so effortless. I notice I'm constantly open by the time I'm releasing the disc and loosing power and that is also what is causing my extreme hyzer angle and nose up throws. When Vainio throws, it looks like the disc just magically flows out of his body and he has SUCH a nice release angle and flight pattern! I think his extreme turn and back to the target movement might help me learn to stay behind the shot until the last second.

I always had a really hard time in the beginning of golf with the same thing. I'd always turn to fast through the ball and could not for the life of me keep the ball straight. Then once I slowed down a bit, and worked on keeping my lag and coming from inside the ball a little bit more, everything started to eventually click. It obviously felt REALLY weird for the first few weeks learning to hit the ball right, but after I got it down, and could do it consistently, I started to learn how to add more speed and power in the right moments and at the right time. It was such an AHA moment for me and my game. I went from always hitting a cut or slice and high with medium distance and inconsistent, to being able to easily with almost no effort hit the ball a mile and shape it any way I wanted. I can literally flick my short irons farther than most people can hit their mid irons because of how well I learned to hold the lag and flick through the ball at the last second. I want to learn that same idea/technique with my Disc Golf throw as well.

And then another guy I just saw today who has a very interesting style not like anyone else I've seen is Eric Oakley! I love how he has a big hop step instead of the typical X step and then just drives his hips down and forward, his arms still low and behind and then in a flash, his arms are at shoulder level and ripping through to a nice follow through. So interesting! Not sure it's the most fundamentally sound way to learn how to play (ala Jim Furyk swing, haha), but his disc comes out hot and straight and goes far! Both of these guys have really interesting throwing techniques that I like and want to try.

It helped me so much when I was in HS learning how to properly hit a golf ball to try different pros swings. It let me feel a different way of getting behind the ball and coming through and even though a lot of them didn't work out, just trying them for a few days always helped me learn more about the swing and take certain ideas out of their swing and incorporate it into my swing to make it better. I'm hoping the same thing happens by trying different pros styles with the Discs!

Any thoughts or ideas on those two guys and their technique and how it could help or hurt me trying to learn?
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  #40  
Old 04-10-2019, 11:54 AM
philgretz philgretz is offline
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Any thoughts or ideas on those two guys and their technique and how it could help or hurt me trying to learn?
Philo Brathwaite is the one you, in particular, should watch. Smooth with superb disc angle control.

I don't know if you were able to glean this from the four pages of comments that you've received, but your first main issue is disc nose angle. It relates to your grip, your reach back, and your pull mechanics. Nose angle. That's where you should be focusing.

Minimize your discs and focus on repeatable practice. Also, you won't need anything faster than speed 6 or so for a while. Once you can get a Champ Leopard to turn for a full flight S-curve, you'll be on your way.

I was a long time ultimate player and pretty good, if aged, athlete and I had to face the fact that my well-ingrained Frisbee mechanics were $#!T for disc golf.

Playing multiple sports well is a good thing, as this hones your athletic mind as well as control of your body. Be adaptable, be ready to learn, become a student of your own mechanics. I recommend that you video record a few of your throws and watch the results "stop action" at key points. That'll teach you a lot.

Good luck. Focus.

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