Disc Golf Course Review An alternative par
 User Name Remember Me? Password
 Register Members List Social Groups - View All Groups - Your Group Messages Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

#1
01-20-2020, 06:54 PM
 AttackingViking Newbie Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Norway Posts: 3 Niced 1 Time in 1 Post
An alternative par

In ball golf, the difficulty of par is similar across all courses. If you go 3 above par on one course, that should be equivalent to 3 above par on another course. This makes it easy for a player to know his/her performance. In disc golf, on the other side, golf is based on the difficulty of the course. It also seem to be a bit arbitrary how the pars are scored, and often holes can be very on the edge between two different pars ("an easy par 3", "a hard par 4" etc).

On one side it can be good to adjust the par based on the difficulty of the course. That may be more motivating, both for newbies and world class players, to have a par adjusted to their level. On the other side, it would also be good to have a different type of par that directly indicates the level of your game.

My idea is to make some kind of an "average par", let's call it avpar. The avpar is what the average tournament player would score on the hole. It should not reflect only the average scored by the players who have played the hole, obviosly the quality of players on each course varies a lot, so there would need to be an adjustment based on how each player normally scores compared to the avpar.

Example: Chris scores on average 20% below the avpar. If the avpar is 3.0, Chris will on average score 2.4 etc. Let's say Chris scores 4 on a hole. Since Chris normally scores 20% below avpar (meaning 80% of the avpar), we will need to adjust the score like this: 4 / 0.8 = 4.8. So Chris' score on this hole (4 strokes) will be adjusted to 4.8, and this number is used for the calculation of the hole's avpar.

There should be a ceiling of median + 4 on each hole to avoid single players drive up the avpar a lot.

This system would make it possible to compare results on each course and each single hole. The avpars could be set with one decimal, like 3.6 so that we won't have "an easy par 4", and the total score would not be screwed up by rounding problems.

This avpar should not replace the current par system, but come as an addition. We already talk about the average score on each hole, but that average doesn't say much about the quality of a game because players varies from course to course. Avpar would be a unified scoring that directly tells the player's performance, as in ball golf.

Note: The example above is slightly simplified. I think to make the avpar more correct, we should always subtract 1 stroke in the calculation, since it's not possible to score better than an ace. If the avpar is 3.0, 2 should mean "50% below avpar", and ace "100% below avpar".

What do you think? Is there maybe something like this already?

 Niced: (1)
#2
01-20-2020, 07:06 PM
 toddnick Par Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: buffalo, ny Years Playing: 2 Courses Played: 74 Posts: 177 Niced 213 Times in 69 Posts

There is so much obsession about par on this board...in my opinion, it is almost irrelevant...who cares?...why the fixation in a number above or below par...a bidie or a par....it is raw score that matters....I shoot 75 and I know how I played regardless of what that means in terms if par...if i make a 3 on a tough long hole, I honestly don't care whether that means birdie or par...it is an awesome 3....

 Niced: (7)
#3
01-20-2020, 07:10 PM
 Cgkdisc .:Hall of Fame Member:. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Twin Cities Years Playing: 31.2 Courses Played: 702 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 12,484 Niced 1,937 Times in 862 Posts

I think the SSA produced for a round is the course index (avpar) you are describing. What hasn't been done is breaking out the SSA per hole values such as 3.6 or 2.5.

 Niced: (6)
#4
01-20-2020, 07:19 PM
 Hampstead * Ace Member * Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Spaceship Earth Years Playing: 30.1 Courses Played: 67 Throwing Style: LHBH Posts: 3,606 Niced 2,330 Times in 744 Posts

I think someone just activated the West signal.

 Niced: (11)
#5
01-20-2020, 07:21 PM
 AttackingViking Newbie Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Norway Posts: 3 Niced 1 Time in 1 Post

Thanks @Cgkdisc, I think SSA (just read about it now) is quite similar to what I'm describing.
#6
01-20-2020, 07:25 PM
 curmudgeonDwindle Birdie Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: CLT Years Playing: 40.8 Courses Played: 20 Throwing Style: LHBH Posts: 317 Niced 196 Times in 106 Posts

I've got this new invention I'd like to tell others about.
It's called the 'wheel'...

There will NEVER be a completely totalizing rational system for this 'problem'. Golfers have been having these discussions for literally centuries. Like flight numbers, 'par' is merely a heuristic to help golfers interpret this part of the game a little bit easier (and sometimes ignite/forestall fist-fights).

Now, if you want to play the 'par discussion' game, then fair enough...but that's a different game than the 'solve the problem' game...

 Niced: (1)
#7
01-20-2020, 07:25 PM
 DavidSauls * Ace Member * Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newberry, SC Years Playing: 24.9 Courses Played: 127 Posts: 15,529 Niced 4,210 Times in 1,737 Posts

Who is the "average tournament player" ????

 Niced: (1)
#8
01-20-2020, 07:26 PM
 DavidSauls * Ace Member * Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newberry, SC Years Playing: 24.9 Courses Played: 127 Posts: 15,529 Niced 4,210 Times in 1,737 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by AttackingViking In ball golf, the difficulty of par is similar across all courses. If you go 3 above par on one course, that should be equivalent to 3 above par on another course.
I'm not a golfer, but I've been told that this is not true.

 Niced: (2)
#9
01-20-2020, 07:33 PM
 AttackingViking Newbie Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Norway Posts: 3 Niced 1 Time in 1 Post

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DavidSauls Who is the "average tournament player" ????
The average of all players participating in tournaments.

#10
01-20-2020, 08:00 PM
 ru4por * Ace Member * Join Date: May 2012 Location: Dearborn Michigan Years Playing: 37 Courses Played: 248 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 4,358 Niced 2,835 Times in 1,005 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by AttackingViking The average of all players participating in tournaments.
The PDGA is the only disc golf body keeping track of tournament play. There are a whole lot more tournaments going on.

I fall into the "I don't care about par" crowd.

It seems as if you will find some enjoyment in this thread. Maybe it covers your talking points, I would not know.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...&highlight=par

 Niced: (1)