Breaking Bad Timing Habit

[Melonhusk]

Trying to get some work done on balance during x step. I was thinking mainly about trying to get more of a lateral push/extension from my right leg, and then trying to extend my left leg, shift from behind and make first contact with my toes.

After watching the first clip I tried again while taking a smaller step, so my foot was more underneath me - it made the last step feel less balanced and less in control, and made me instinctively take a wider last step, but I’m not sure if any of those things are good or bad. Anyway, here’s video!

[sidewinder22]

Left foot is too backwards and you lean back.

Start at the hit/address position and reverse your front foot walking back into x-step away from hit behind rear foot - walking back into Hershyzer position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=36s

[Melonhusk]

After a few weeks of my throws getting worse and worse as my body got more and more tense, today I decided to try to throw out all preconceptions of what having a “loose arm” meant, and go for even looser. I think I may have gotten somewhere with it? It felt very weird, and like my lower body was doing way more work than before to get not all that much distance, but it also felt pretty easy on my arm - and I think the distance issue might have partly been that I didn’t figure out how to grip the disc through release while trying to keep my arm loose.

Warming up:


Softer throw:


Harder throw:

[Melonhusk]

So in addition to my other woes I'm an awful putter, and for a while now I've been trying to figure out what Heimburg does with his push putt. The most bothersome thing for me was that he seems to follow through into internal rotation, almost like the finish of a forehand. I tried and tried, but it never used to make any sense; the only thing I ever had any success with was popping the disc out from internal to external rotation, finishing palm up.

Well tonight I think I finally stumbled into a feel for what he does, which is great, but I'm still curious what on earth is going on here.





On the one hand, these felt so natural, like my arm was moving the way it wanted to. And I was really winging these things with minimal effort. On the other hand, I had to turn my brain off so as not to have to convince myself the disc would even come out at all. It felt like my hand was going "over top" of the disc right to left, rather than spinning it clockwise - and every time up until tonight that I've tried, the result has literally been the disc flipping end over end sideways.

I don't know if this is something that everyone else knows about, or if this is just one approach of many, or somewhere in between, but I'm mainly just curious how this works, as it's a whole new feel from any way I've ever thrown a frisbee before.

[Melonhusk]

I've been working on the loose arm standstill for a few weeks, currently focusing on trying not to turn back too early and trying to stay inside my posture, keeping my hips in front of my shoulders in the backswing. It seems like I have a tendency to tip over my plant leg, and I'm not totally sure what to do differently to avoid that.



Is it a matter of starting to resist earlier, with my plant leg? It seems like when I tip it's because I plant with a bent front knee, and my back knee still straight. I know I'm also often planting heel to toe instead of toe to heel, so maybe that's part of it.

I'm also noticing I'm having a tough time throwing level shots, they all want to release at like 30-40 degrees. I can see it happening in the video, my body aligning in a way that can't help but shoot the disc up - but again I'm not sure what to change.

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you look really flat footed/dorsiflexed and collapse the front hip/tip over, and open up. I'm pushing into the ground a lot more from the balls/instep/plantar flexion and staying closed with body while I've sent the back edge of the disc to target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=8m26s

[Bush122]

Looks to me like you're trying to push off the back foot really late - I've done this before and that lead to a bunch of sky hyzers for me.

I think planting so flat footed is probably a big contributor. Just try some short one step stuff without a disc and focus on pointing your toes so you go toe -> heel in the plant. Then work on toe down -> gas pedal off back leg -> shift into can crush

[lostDoughnut]

what was suggested to myself and really helped, im not sure if its already bee posted

try staggering your stance at the start.

sdfsdf.jpg

to get familiar with the movement now that your legs are staggered would be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m30s

the feeling during the peak of the backswing can be felt via
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s
i believe tension in the left outside of the hip is what we are going for. that might mean we are good and coiled up

you also might be tipping over your plant leg because you are leaning towards the basket too much + your plant leg doesnt move towards the basket much. a combo of those two and your cog is too far forward as a result. from the power of posture video your spine aligns with your plant leg when it swings away from the basket and then towards the basket

[Melonhusk]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Yeah, you look really flat footed/dorsiflexed and collapse the front hip/tip over, and open up. I'm pushing into the ground a lot more from the balls/instep/plantar flexion and staying closed with body while I've sent the back edge of the disc to target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=8m26s

Originally Posted by Bush122

Looks to me like you're trying to push off the back foot really late - I've done this before and that lead to a bunch of sky hyzers for me.

I think planting so flat footed is probably a big contributor. Just try some short one step stuff without a disc and focus on pointing your toes so you go toe -> heel in the plant. Then work on toe down -> gas pedal off back leg -> shift into can crush

Yeah, that makes sense. It's so difficult for me to get the hang of the toe to heel thing standstill. In an x-step, for some reason, I always land toe first - maybe just because it's more dynamic. But then there are a whole bunch of other issues. Thanks!

Originally Posted by lostDoughnut

what was suggested to myself and really helped, im not sure if its already bee posted

try staggering your stance at the start.

Attachment 76127

to get familiar with the movement now that your legs are staggered would be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m30s

the feeling during the peak of the backswing can be felt via
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s
i believe tension in the left outside of the hip is what we are going for. that might mean we are good and coiled up

you also might be tipping over your plant leg because you are leaning towards the basket too much + your plant leg doesnt move towards the basket much. a combo of those two and your cog is too far forward as a result. from the power of posture video your spine aligns with your plant leg when it swings away from the basket and then towards the basket

Thanks, yeah it's interesting it's a lot more comfortable for me to stagger like that and go heel to toe, I think because that's pretty much how you throw in ultimate. Trying to learn how to do it the other way has been the problem!

[Melonhusk]

Still chipping away at getting the standstill right, feel like I'm learning new things, but still probably have a ways to go. I was really focusing on kicking the can, then doing the battering ram - both of which are pretty different feelings to the way I was previously trying to throw.



This is pretty representative of what things were looking like yesterday - I was finally throwing level, instead of skying everything straight up, but every throw felt like a "whiff", like I felt no build up of disc resistance and my arm was moving at the same speed as the disc. It didn't hurt, like will sometimes happen, just felt like things were out of sync somehow. I do notice that my weight seems to be a little tipped back as I try to kick forward? Seems like maybe I need to let myself fall forward just a hair more to get my hips more level, before I kick the can? I'm trying to not collapse on my front leg like I do in my previous post, and instead rock my hips forward into the plant, but it looks like I'm sort of just launching my hips up from the start, instead of letting them rock back fully first. That's my best guess at least. Thanks!