#111  
Old 06-28-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I wonder if Skype lessons would be effective. Sure, not as good as in person but it would at least be real-time feedback.
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  #112  
Old 06-28-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Also check out James Conrad throw a soft shot, how it looks like any other players' X-step and he has a very controlled finish position. This is his fundamental form, it's very solid. He just tends to add a massive run up routine and lets himself get pulled through the shot way more after release because of it.

Agreed! That throw by him looks a LOT better than the ones I usually see where he looks so out of control and like he's trying to chuck a refrigerator down the fairway, his body completely out of control, spinning around, and 20' past the tee pad after the throw, haha.
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  #113  
Old 06-28-2019, 05:17 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Agreed! That throw by him looks a LOT better than the ones I usually see where he looks so out of control and like he's trying to chuck a refrigerator down the fairway, his body completely out of control, spinning around, and 20' past the tee pad after the throw, haha.
I wonder how much more distance/velocity he throws with that added momentum compared to this type of throw. He obviously has the balance and fundamentals to keep all the same aspects of his throw when he adds the extra run up even though it looks a little extreme to me.

And I wonder how much of it is because he prefers to throw putters on anything under 350' and likely farther, and he pushes Teebirds/Thunderbirds to the low 400's easily all the time while others are throwing stable distance drivers. He seems to really like discing down and smashing his shots.
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  #114  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:31 PM
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I have not actually seen that link, so thank you. I have seen quite a bit of your stuff as well as other intro to the sport posts here and there. I will go through all that stuff as I have time. Iím sure it gets kind of frustrating trying to help all of us, when you have already posted a lot of the info in the past, haha. So thank you for being so patient with not only myself, but all the rest of us.

I have never heard of Barry and never seen him throw. That's why I said his swing looks so odd. I have never seen anyone throw so weird before. And I never doubted that he was a great player. Just stating that I've never seen his throw or style But Iíll watch some of his throws when I get time. I know I said I ďmostlyĒ watch Simon, Eagle and Paul. And I do. But I have seen lots of other pros throw. Just donít always remember their names or their throwing styles, and plus I'm not trying to emulate a lot of them. Some of the pros have pretty ugly looking styles that looked forced and awkward during some or all of the their throw. That is why I said I mostly like watching Simon and Eagle as their throwing style is something I want to ďtryĒ and emulate. Soooo smooth, yet so much distance. A lot like Freddy Couples or Ernie Els, who were my major influences on my golf swing. I know I wonít ever throw exactly like them, and Iím sure Iíll never throw as far as they do. Thatís not my goal. But as in all sports, we all gravitate towards a few people we just ďjiveĒ with better, and so far, they are those people.

I definitely have noticed a lot of interesting styles of throwing while watching some of the pros play. ButÖ. I donít want to try and emulate someone that has a throwing style I donít like, and that looks awkward, forced or just bizarre.

Like, in golf, I would NEVER in a million years show a new golfer Jim Furyks swing and say, he buddy, go out there and try to hit like Jim! His swing is insanely horrible, right up until he hits the ball. But that is all that matters. He knows how to get his club to the ball well using his odd style. I know Jimís whole swing story, and know that ONLY Jim can hit like Jim, and that trying to emulate him will be a bad road to go down for a new player. Jim can get the club where it needs to be right before he hits the ball, and it all works out. But itís not a swing you would ever want to try and emulate. Just like I don't like this Barry guys throwing style. Or James Conrad, and I've seen some others where the follow through is just heinous and so out of balance. But they all get the disc to the center of their chest, with the elbow leading, and the wrist on the outside of the disc and can really let it fly! But that is why I noticed Simon and Eagle right away. They are thin like me, they have long arms like me, and just have a great throwing motion that looks effortless, that attracts me to their style. And obviously they crush! So they are my people so far I would like to try and emulate, all while learning from ALL types of throwing styles. I'm definitely going to try and work on this constant wide arm angle type throw that Barry uses and see how it goes, and what it can teach me, to then help me incorporate some ideas and feelings into my own throwing style

And trust me, I think about that often! How people who started playing this sport 5-10 years ago had almost NOTHING to help out or go off of. That must have been BRUTAL!!! They had to learn on their own, in a field for years and years before they were even half way decent. And the only people that probably got half way decent were the ones that were lucky enough to play rounds with some local pros that were nice enough to help out or give them some tips. So I feel the pain of people such as yourself and other players who have been in those shoes. And that is why I am so thankful for this forum and for people such as yourself and HUB and so many others that share their experiences and knowledge that has taken them 5-10 years of hard work and dedication, usually on their own!

And that is also why I realized a few weeks ago, that this type of learning throw written word and videos is so hard to utilize and has serious limitations. Itís great in it's own way, but has serious limitations. Itís amazing all the videos you and others have made in order to try and pass on your knowledge. But as you know, 5 mins in person with someone could accomplish more than 5 weeks of constant videotaping and back and forth conversations. Thereís no substitute for in person learning from another human. So Iím really really hoping this local pro that is going to help me today and hopefully more in the future can finally help me break through some of these sticking points Iím having. And once he does, Iíll be well on my way to implementing a LOT of the ideas and drills your purport for all of us. Iíll finally understand them, and hopefully be able to explain to others how it feels in my own words, etc. And I do think that if more experts or pros were on here helping out, that a lot more people would be getting better and finally understanding things they are stuck on. As more ways of describing something is always better.

Iíve read some things from your point of view that make no sense, and then read it a different way from HUB and it totally makes sense, and vice versa. And neither of you are wrong. You are both right. Because you are just trying your best to describe a complicated full body movement that takes split second to accomplish in the best way you know how. And it will make sense with some, and not others. And I once again, I canít thank people like yourself, HUB, et al. enough for all the work and videos and help you provide to the rest of us! Itís really quite astounding how much time you take out of your life to help the rest of us out of the goodness of your heart and your desire to see others get better. Very much appreciated!
Have you played around with the Door Frame Drills and Inside Swing Drill?

Wide arm is important to allow the lower arm to swing the disc into your center. You can't move your upper arm across your chest very fast or efficient. The lower arm can swing much faster than the upper arm.

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  #115  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:36 PM
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I think James Conrad throws very controlled. He just has an unorthodox run up and fallow through.
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  #116  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:39 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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The thing that gets me about Conrad's form is that his elbow drops so low during the forward swing. But the way he balances makes it work somehow.
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  #117  
Old 06-29-2019, 09:43 AM
deyo7 deyo7 is online now
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I have never heard of Barry and never seen him throw. That's why I said his swing looks so odd. I have never seen anyone throw so weird before. And I never doubted that he was a great player. Just stating that I've never seen his throw or style But Iíll watch some of his throws when I get time. I know I said I ďmostlyĒ watch Simon, Eagle and Paul. And I do. But I have seen lots of other pros throw. Just donít always remember their names or their throwing styles, and plus I'm not trying to emulate a lot of them. Some of the pros have pretty ugly looking styles that looked forced and awkward during some or all of the their throw. That is why I said I mostly like watching Simon and Eagle as their throwing style is something I want to ďtryĒ and emulate. Soooo smooth, yet so much distance. A lot like Freddy Couples or Ernie Els, who were my major influences on my golf swing. I know I wonít ever throw exactly like them, and Iím sure Iíll never throw as far as they do. Thatís not my goal. But as in all sports, we all gravitate towards a few people we just ďjiveĒ with better, and so far, they are those people.

I definitely have noticed a lot of interesting styles of throwing while watching some of the pros play. ButÖ. I donít want to try and emulate someone that has a throwing style I donít like, and that looks awkward, forced or just bizarre.
Keep in mind many of us have been down the same path, trying to be like Lizotte. I watched his clinics, analyzed his form in slow motion, etc., and practiced it in a field for hours. It ain't easy. I'm thankful SW teaches a more efficient way.

You like Mcbeth? Note how other than more elbow hinge young Mcbeth is almost the same as Barry's form:

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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Josh Anthon is in the OP - how many 2nd place finishes at Worlds and USDGC?

Jalle Stoor is a great example as well.

Michael Johansen is another.


Philo Brathwaite is another.


Barry Shultz - Multi World and USDGC Champ:


Jake Azato - local pro crusher:


Dave Feldberg is very similar, also World and USDGC Champ he just doesn't bend his elbow much and collapses the upper arm more due to shoulder injury:


Also similar is Nate Doss and Paul McBeth just a little extra hinging action, a couple World and USDGC Titles between them:



Most of these guys are also BH dominant.
You don't have to model your form completely after Barry either. I'm just suggesting you give it a go. You might get a whole new feeling and it just clicks. It took me all of one throw at this to realize SW was onto something. The proof is in the pudding.

Good luck
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  #118  
Old 06-29-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Keep in mind many of us have been down the same path, trying to be like Lizotte. I watched his clinics, analyzed his form in slow motion, etc., and practiced it in a field for hours. It ain't easy. I'm thankful SW teaches a more efficient way.

You like Mcbeth? Note how other than more elbow hinge young Mcbeth is almost the same as Barry's form:



You don't have to model your form completely after Barry either. I'm just suggesting you give it a go. You might get a whole new feeling and it just clicks. It took me all of one throw at this to realize SW was onto something. The proof is in the pudding.

Good luck
Two things:

1. Lololol I love young McBeast hair.

2. Iím not a form nerd like all of you but since you mentioned Eagle the insane thing to me isnít his backhand itís the way he throws what looks like a lazy layup style flick and it sails 450í.
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  #119  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:16 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is online now
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Originally Posted by R-Ogre View Post
Two things:

1. Lololol I love young McBeast hair.

2. Iím not a form nerd like all of you but since you mentioned Eagle the insane thing to me isnít his backhand itís the way he throws what looks like a lazy layup style flick and it sails 450í.
$ hair.

Yeah. Eagles FH is so impressively effortless and far.
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  #120  
Old 06-30-2019, 01:18 PM
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So I've thinking about something after my lesson and watching a few videos on youtube. First off, I'm going to start incorporating a small X step into my throws from now on, while just using the OLD and one step just to warm up. The guy at the lesson said he thought it would be good to at the very least do a 2 or 4 step to get some momentum into my swing as he thought it looked so weird and awkward trying to throw from stand still or a one step. He said I should only be throwing like that for 200-250 and in. So I'm going to be working on that. And I also noticed something that may or may not be correct, but after watching the guy who gave me a lesson and watching a few videos it got me thinking about the timing of the throw.

So after reading and watching tons of stuff, I have been under the impression that I want to be completely turned and have the disc farthest away from me right when my front plant foot touches down? And that I shouldn't begin pulling until all my weight is on my plant leg/foot? But I am still struggling to feel any type of whip, sling, fast ejection with ease. So let me propose this idea and you guys tell me the pros and cons of it. Plus, the guy that gave me the lesson looked different than this in person and then I asked him. And he said this: he has most of his weight balanced and on his toes in the X steps, then when his inside left foot plants and he crosses over, his weight is on his back foot for the most part. And then as his hips move forward, that is when he moves his weight forward. And it is during this split second of shifting from weight back to weight front, that he completes his turn back and then violently comes forward, elbow first and slings the disc out! He seemed to be reaching back kind of late. He was throwing Jawbreaker Roach putters 300-330 all evening on all sorts of cool lines with ease! And when he threw my FD's and Maul a few times, it was this GIANT HIGH anhyzer or monster S pattern over 400 with ease. It was very impressive. Every disc he threw had this high pitched super fast thumping sound as it left his hand and the disc just ROCKETED out of his hand! Even a few times when I threw a disc within 20-40' distance wise as him, mine just kind of barely makes it there and his comes out with SOO much heat and spin and power. It was so cool yet mysterious to see how he throws. Very very much like a Will Schusterick type of throw. VERY straight back and through.

So I'm thinking: what if I delay my turn/reach back, until just before or just as my front foot touches down? So basically delay it, so that while I'm touching down with my front foot, that my turn back is beginning and then completing while I'm sliding butt/hips target-ward? So that it's delayed and building up a ton of torque/tension in my body? Because as of right now, I feel like if I time my turn back finish/full turn back point, to coincide with my plant foot touching down, that I'm just kind of hovering there waiting for everything to catch up and I have NO sort of torque or coiling up of my body. I feel like I then have nowhere to go except around and open up early, and I round. So I'm thinking if I delay the turn back in the throw until the point where my weight is transferring forward, that this quick movement of the turnback will create more tension and allow the body to release more energy and power into the throw. Plus I'll be coming into the hit late, which will help me stay behind the throws as I constantly am opening to soon.

So in my baseball swing, I rock back a little first to setup for the hit/swing, and my wrists do a little forward cock movement to get the bat moving a tad. Then I stride forward with my leg and while my weight is shifting from back to front, my hands press back a little or actually, better description, just stay where they were. Very much like a pro level Disc golf reachback where they aren't pressing the disc back per say, they are just moving their body forward WHILE the disc stays more or less still and keeps moving behind them as they move forward. Which is creating tension in my core. Then as my plant leg hits down and my hips begin to release and turn, I'm all coiled up and my upper boy has nowhere to go except forward and much faster than if I didn't do this move. A similar thing happens in my golf swing, but it's way harder to explain properely as I feel there are way more things going on. But a very similar thing happens, where my weight is moving forward while I'm still holding certain things back. The point is, it's to store up energy at the last second to create lag and bat/club speed. If I don't do these late moves, I can't hit the ball very far. And I feel like this might be one of many reasons I'm not able to throw the disc far?

Thoughts?
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