SD86 2019 and Beyond

[SD86]

I'll always be trying new things and putting together 'specialty' bags for fun, but my core bag is finally pretty settled.

Putting putter - Classic Marshal. The concave underside and small bead are a perfect fit for my index finger, and the overall grip is very comfortable. Classic (hard) plastic is firm and stays firm, which is what I like. The Marshal has enough glide to not be a clunky brick, but as long as I don't get too nose-up, it doesn't sail on me. Very slightly overstable at longer distances, which is good as I tend to throw slightly right. Next in line if I get the 'yips' with the Marshal is the Prodigy 350g Pa3. Best putter plastic ever, very straight.

Throwing putter - Polecat. I usually bag my Champion Polecat, but can put a DX Polecat in the bag if weather conditions call for it. I fan-grip the Polecat for approaches up to about 125 ft. I freely admit I don't get the Polecat to 200 ft., but I don't want to... it's for accurate approaches to park under the basket, which the Polecat does very well.

Approach discs - Mirage, Colt, Tomb. The (Star) Mirage is understable with any power, and very straight when thrown at 50% power, with surprisingly log distance. The Colt is straight at longer distances if I don't wrist-roll it (Nova is a good disc to practice getting wrist-roll out of the equation). The Tomb is very straight with a bit of fade if thrown with power, and has a healthier fade when thrown with less power. I also have Harps and an ESP Zone, but don't always need them, as the Tomb works fine.

Understable mid - Lucid Patrol. Best disc I've found for anny/turnover shots for dogleg-right holes.

Straight-to-understable mid - new (Pink) Panther. Flies straight, drifts a bit right (RHBH throw) if thrown with power. Also my utility disc for rollers, spike hyzers, and forehand approaches.

Straight-to-overstable mid - Star Cro. My original Pink Panther could fill this slot, as it has not changed it's straight-to-slightly-overstable flight despite over four years of almost daily use and lots of abuse. But the Cro does very well, and is slightly more overstable. The Cro is very accurate for longer approaches, particularly into the wind. It feels good in the hand, as well.

Overstable mid - Z-plastic (Green) Hornet. I really like it that the Hornet will make it's fade but keep gliding as it goes left (RHBH throw) rather than dump fade. Great for getting around obstacles with reliable flight.

Tweener - DX Cheetah. I throw this when I need an accurate shot in the woods. It's longer than the mids, but mid-like accurate. I'd bagged it on a whim, but when I took it out, I found myself missing it and thinking 'the Cheetah would be great for this shot'. So it's in the bag.

Understable Fairway - Leopard3. I have a Glow Champ, Champion, Star, and Hannah Leatherman Swirly Star Leo3s, and I like the Champion and Hannah Leathermans the best. Flies straight with a little drift right, and I get great distance from it. Feels excellent in the hand. If I want something a bit more stable, I'll bag a TL or TL3, or a DGA Pipeline.

Overstable Fairway - Exodus, Jennifer Allen Teebird, Banshee. I throw the overstable fairway when I need to get around an obstacle with reliable fade and/or the wind is severely beating my face. Somewhat of a utility disc; I don't throw this disc very oten.

Understable Control Driver - Infinite Discs Sphinx. Love this disc. Feels good in the hand, I-blend grips well but not TOO much, has a ton of glide and distance, and it's a decent roller.

Overstable Control Driver - Star SL. I mostly throw this into a headwind, but it's a lot of fun to throw, and for whatever reason the SL just clicks with me. Not super-overstable, but fades reiiably.

Main Distance Driver - Star Tern. Will be the Mystere if they ever put Star Mysteres out in lighter weights, but a Star Tern in the 150-class range has been doing very well for me.

Stable Distance Driver - Pharaoh. I can throw this into mild headwinds and get great distance. My Pro Shryke flies very similarly.

Overstable Distance Driver - Pro Destroyer. I generally bag and use this in hurricane-'ish' winds. It's a really nice disc, though; the plastic feels good and it flies well out of the hand. My noodle arm isn't made for most Destroyers, but lighter-weight Pro Destroyers are good to have when the wind is acting up.

Utility - Archangel. I throw a DX Archangel near water or OB where a disc might be irretrievable. A max wt. Archangel hyzerflips very nicely for me, or can drift right if the trouble is to the left with a straight, flat throw. The Archangel is derided as a 'beginner' disc, but it's useful, and it rolls pretty well, also.

[Streets]

This isn't a jab, I genuinely want to discuss and here's my take on your bag. I'd slim down to:

Marshals
Tomb/Zone/Stud - just pick a low profile, approach putter
Panther (your OS and slightly US one)
Hornet
Leo3
Teebird
Sphinx
SL

Keep another bag for all of the other stuff, but focus on getting good with the above.

[DarkAce1978]

I kinda feel the same as you /\. A little heavy on the slow stuff but I'd still keep a couple faster discs in there. I don't throw very far but it sure is easier to get distance out of 150 Tern than the slower stuff.

[aphilso1]

Man, that's a lot of molds. Not saying you have to be Philo and cycle to the extreme, but it surprises me that you really don't have any molds that you've bagged long enough to beat into a different stability and pair with a fresh one. I haven't been playing terribly long, but I've still got some key molds that I've used enough to bag multiples of. Your slower molds in particular seem awfully crowded.

What do you most like to throw? Find ways of throwing those discs more.

[JuanA]

How do you compare the Exodus to the TeeBird and TL lines? I seem to throw a lot of the same discs as you in this slot, and I've been wanting to give the Exodus a try.

[SD86]

Originally Posted by Streets

This isn't a jab, I genuinely want to discuss and here's my take on your bag. I'd slim down to:

Marshals
Tomb/Zone/Stud - just pick a low profile, approach putter
Panther (your OS and slightly US one)
Hornet
Leo3
Teebird
Sphinx
SL

Keep another bag for all of the other stuff, but focus on getting good with the above.

I hear ya. I was thinking of the Panther x2 as opposed to the Panther/Cro or Panther/Patrol.

The Patrol works very well on some dogleg-right holes on my home course, and I'm getting dialed-in with it. I like the Cro, but could live without it. I could get away with dropping the Hornet, and power down on my OS fairway, though I like the Hornet for getting around obstacles.

Also, some caveats: I dont like using my putting putter for throwing/approaching, only for putting. So I'd have to carry an approach disc. It COULD be another Marshal (and I have one in premium plastic, also), or a Fuzion Warden, etc. But once I put the Polekitty in the bag, I found that I miss it if it's not in there, and my scores improved markedly when I committed to the Polecat for approaches. And I'm pretty darn good with it.

So to slim down to 11 or less. It'd be:
Marshal, Polecat, Stud, Panther (more stable one), Patrol, Leo3, (OS fairway), Sphinx, SL, Tern.

That (OS fairway) could be the Jen Allen Teebird, Exodus, or my lighter weight Champ Banshee.

I'd keep the Tern for the open holes where I can rip it for distance.

Alternatively, I could go "All-Infinite-Discs" and have the Myth, Tomb, Anubis, Ra, Exodus, Sphinx, and Pharaoh. So that's 7 discs.

[SD86]

Originally Posted by aphilso1

Man, that's a lot of molds. Not saying you have to be Philo and cycle to the extreme, but it surprises me that you really don't have any molds that you've bagged long enough to beat into a different stability and pair with a fresh one. I haven't been playing terribly long, but I've still got some key molds that I've used enough to bag multiples of. Your slower molds in particular seem awfully crowded.

What do you most like to throw? Find ways of throwing those discs more.

First of all, I throw some of the listed discs a lot, and others not so much. I don't throw my Hornet, Teebird/Banshee, or SL a lot, but when the shot I need those for (or wind conditions) come up, I'll use 'em and be glad I have them.

Second, if others want to cycle, they can and should. But I've gotten into some debates (and been viciously personally attacked) because I refuse to cycle and will never cycle. I will never, EVER cycle one mold of discs. My reasons are:

1. Except for putters, I prefer premium plastic. My original Champion Panther is four years old, is used at least once a round and usually more, has been thrown into trees and made like a Stuka dive-bomber on some spike hyzers, and used as a roller... and it's still the stability it was on the day I got it. Star plastic also takes a long time to season in. I like it that way. And that leads to reason 2:

2. Take forever to get a disc seasoned in, start cycling it... then the disc golf gods demand sacrifice, and you lose that perfectly seasoned in disc. And imagine the added pain if that lost disc was a Champion disc you took three years to get where you wanted it...

By the way, that happened to Paul McBeth. He'd gotten his Champ Roc3s and Destroyers where he wanted them... and then his bag was stolen halfway through a tournament. To his credit, he took all new discs and still made it to a playoff (he lost on the first playoff hole), but all that work to cycle those discs... gone. He didn't try again, and went back to McPro Roc3s which take less time to season in.

So no, I'd rather have different molds in premium plastic than try to cycle discs. I might have two of the same mold that have different PLHs, or a mold in different plastics, and thus flying differently, but I'll never work to wear in a disc so I can cycle that mold. If a disc starts wearing in (like several Gold Line Rivers), I'm likely going to buy and bag a fresh disc, and the old one will sit at home as a backup. If a mold and plastic wear in too quickly (like several Gold Line Rivers), I'll likely give up the mold altogether... I gave up Gold Line Rivers, an otherwise great mold in a great-feeling plastic, for just that reason.

I'll leave the cycling to others if that is what they prefer to do, but I won't cycle. And I hope I haven't been too ambivalent and dispassionate in the above comments...

[SD86]

Originally Posted by JuanA

How do you compare the Exodus to the TeeBird and TL lines? I seem to throw a lot of the same discs as you in this slot, and I've been wanting to give the Exodus a try.

The Exodus is allegedly an Eagle-L, though I do much better with the Exodus than my sample-of-one Star Eagle-L. The Exodus seems to have a bit more glide. I lost my first-run Exodus to the lake, and just got a new one, which flies similarly to the the way the old one did.

The Jen Allen Color Glow Teebird is more overstable than most other Teebirds, from what others say as well as my own experience. It's a lot like my Exodus in terms of stability. I threw them both on the range (schoolyard) this past weekend, and the fresh new Jen Allen Teebird faded a little bit more than the Exodus. I don't know how fast these color glow Teebirds will season in and lose some of that overstability/fade, but I'll find out

Talking fresh new discs, the TL is not as overstable as the Teebird or Exodus, especially Star TLs. Some Champion TLs might be as stable as a Star Teebird, and DX Teebirds wear in to be TL-"ish" in not a lot of time.

Yes, give the Exodus a try. At best, you'll love it. At worst, you'll get a lot of throwing practice with it trying to make it work.

[HERB brooks]

Originally Posted by SD86

I refuse to cycle and will never cycle. I will never, EVER cycle one mold of discs.

Cycling really isn't for everyone so I can understand the hesitance to try it out. When I was getting into the game my bag also did not have any duplicate molds, and I really enjoyed throwing with that bag where every disc had a specific role. Its fun trying different manufacturers products, and new releases are also enjoyable to try out. However, everyone has certain molds/discs that they really click with more than others. So why the steadfast refusal to ever try and bag a pair of one or two of your favorite molds?

Food for thought here...I don't mean to criticize or anything, your bag should be set up the way you want, who cares if people disagree. If you have all the shots you want covered and enjoy your bag, that's all that matters. You seem to like to tinker with your bag, (I am of a similar disposition and constantly am tying to optimize my setup) so it seems like adding in a few extra copies of favorite molds could potentially be an enjoyable experiment for you.

Originally Posted by SD86

My reasons are:

1. Except for putters, I prefer premium plastic. My original Champion Panther is four years old, is used at least once a round and usually more, has been thrown into trees and made like a Stuka dive-bomber on some spike hyzers, and used as a roller... and it's still the stability it was on the day I got it. Star plastic also takes a long time to season in. I like it that way. And that leads to reason 2:

Premium plastic does take quite a while to beat in, especially non-trilogy Champion/Z type plastic. You seem to like pro & I blend a good amount and I also agree that it is some good plastic. Obviously that's not an option for your Panther, but is for many other molds you bag. Driver pro makes for great cycling plastic, it holds a sweet spot forever, but you can knock the new off it fairly quickly.

Originally Posted by SD86

2. Take forever to get a disc seasoned in, start cycling it... then the disc golf gods demand sacrifice, and you lose that perfectly seasoned in disc. And imagine the added pain if that lost disc was a Champion disc you took three years to get where you wanted it...

I hear you on this one, it sucks losing a perfectly beat disc that's been in your bag for years getting to that sweet spot. Sometimes it is completely unavoidable to lose one, but you never risk your hardest to replace disc on a sketchy water carry. This also becomes less of an issue with Pro plastic, since it beats in much quicker despite being pretty durable.

Originally Posted by SD86

I might have two of the same mold that have different PLHs, or a mold in different plastics, and thus flying differently, but I'll never work to wear in a disc so I can cycle that mold. If a disc starts wearing in (like several Gold Line Rivers), I'm likely going to buy and bag a fresh disc, and the old one will sit at home as a backup. If a mold and plastic wear in too quickly (like several Gold Line Rivers), I'll likely give up the mold altogether... I gave up Gold Line Rivers, an otherwise great mold in a great-feeling plastic, for just that reason.

If the disc beats in too quickly, then how could the old beat on be a backup for a fresh one? If the flight becomes different, to the point where you need a fresh on in the bag, its not a reliable backup for the new one (obviously you can manipulate release angle and other things to compensate for this). At that point the one at home doesn't serve much a purpose, unless you were willing to keep it in the bag while adding in the fresh plastic. If you are inclined to bag a different (read more US) mold instead of a beat version of a favorite that's certainly a valid approach.

[SD86]

Originally Posted by HERB brooks

If the disc beats in too quickly, then how could the old beat on be a backup for a fresh one? If the flight becomes different, to the point where you need a fresh on in the bag, its not a reliable backup for the new one (obviously you can manipulate release angle and other things to compensate for this). At that point the one at home doesn't serve much a purpose, unless you were willing to keep it in the bag while adding in the fresh plastic. If you are inclined to bag a different (read more US) mold instead of a beat version of a favorite that's certainly a valid approach.

Thanks for the comments. As to the example of my Rivers, maybe using the word 'backup' was confusing. What I meant was that the Gold Line Rivers wore in and got really flippy way too quickly, so I'd have to get a new one to have the more reliably mildly understable. If I lost a disc, the old one(s) could still be used temporarily (on hyzer flips or something) until I got the new one in. The old one would not be a permanent replacement for the lost disc, which is what 'backup' normally means. Apologies for the confusion.

Side note: I use mostly Champion Leopard3s now in that slot, and I probably will be physically unable to throw discs before it gets any seasoning on it at all.