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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 5 50.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 5 50.00%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 0 0%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 02-09-2017, 11:03 AM
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I thought we had this all cleared up: par is 3.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo4Discs View Post
Par doesnt mean jack.... Only the number of times you throw does.
Adding to what Chuck wrote. You're correct, if you're an am playing with your buds. Even if it's league with your buds or tournament play. As soon as you start talking about media, external sponsorships, promoting the sport to parks and cities, par or a measure of hole difficulty becomes very important.

For Paul McBeth, recruiting a sponsorship from Adidas, it's a potential point of common ground.

What I don't understand is the non libertarian approach the non par guys take to this. No one is saying, "if you don't read the par sign and do the par dance prior to driving, you can't join the PDGA." All they are saying is that if you're going to use par, it should follow rules that make it consistent across the board. That is, ignore it if you want, we're all good with that. The non libertarian guys, they're welcome to count strokes, ignore par, whine at card mates about it, and have fun all they want, but they don't have the right to tell the rest of us that par doesn't have value. It does.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2017, 11:06 AM
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I wish Click and Clack could host the Par Talk podcast.


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Old 02-09-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art_vandelay View Post
Par is most important to the person who just threw a bad tee shot--apparently. because that's when people usually ask "what's the par on this one".
Amazing! I just realized that my group has played every single hole known to man as a par 3 for years, and I still hear this question when one of us has a shankapotomus moment.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by zenbot View Post
I wish Click and Clack could host the Par Talk podcast.


I need you to solve a dispute. Whenever I release my disc, I hear this loud popping noise. I think it's my fingers snapping together, but my husband says it's the disc flexing up and down. Who's correct?

It's par lady. Whenever your drive is so bad that you can't possibly come back and make par, the disc makes that popping sound.

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  #16  
Old 02-09-2017, 11:55 AM
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art_vandelay art_vandelay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstopper View Post
Amazing! I just realized that my group has played every single hole known to man as a par 3 for years, and I still hear this question when one of us has a shankapotomus moment.
The worst is when someone says to you "it'll be okay, it's a par 4" as if that makes a bad shot less bad.

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  #17  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:15 PM
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From here somewhere in the middle ground, where par is not exactly important but where a well-designed, universally-applied par would be useful---

I can't number how many times I've been guiding someone at Stoney Hill, and been asked about the par on a particular hole. I always have to stop and think.....and I'm the one who set the par. (Even worse when they ask the par for a layout, and I have to stop and think and count).
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:41 PM
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I think the biggest discussion point is "to the green +1 shot" vs "to the green +2 shots".

The +2 shot crowd does not want par 2s and the +1 shot crowd does not want the tournament results to be like -50 to -70.

I dont care, i count throws. I find it especially ridiculous when somebody asks about par while we are playing safari-skins.

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  #19  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:42 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbot View Post
I wish Click and Clack could host the Par Talk podcast.
To keep it alliterative, their nicknames should become Pitch and Putt. AKA Two Close Range Throws.

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  #20  
Old 02-09-2017, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigles View Post
I think the biggest discussion point is "to the green +1 shot" vs "to the green +2 shots".

The +2 shot crowd does not want par 2s and the +1 shot crowd does not want the tournament results to be like -50 to -70.

I dont care, i count throws. I find it especially ridiculous when somebody asks about par while we are playing safari-skins.
Then there's the "forget the green" camp, who just wants it to be something like the expected score.

And the "the green is not the 10-meter circle" camp, who keep pointing out that the book says 2 shots from close range, not from the green, and invite us to argue what "close range" means.
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