#91  
Old 06-21-2018, 03:42 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
I understand they aren't doing a thirty-minute synopsis of rounds, but for sure it is exposure and an opportunity. JC, ya sound like a glass half full kind of guy.
Generally I am a half-full kind of guy, but I also like to be pragmatic. Exposure is good, but I think it amounts to teeny-tiny rather than big steps in the right direction. We need to get tournament coverage (live or post-produced) more exposure among players before we get overly concerned about attracting the attention of the non-player. We're growing that exposure at a good clip, so I think we'll get there eventually without forcing anything.
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  #92  
Old 06-21-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
A while back I would agree with you, but for whatever reason..Jomez is now the standard that users are comparing other disc golf related media to and I tend to believe a big part of that reason is the quality of their production.
Don't confuse tournament coverage with all disc golf media. Also don't forget that I hired Jomez multiple times, as did Jussi. Our coverage was homogeneous more recently. Even though they shot it, it's still our production, you can't fairly parse it out.

Our quality is on par, they do a couple things better, we do a couple things better. You may like one style over another, but you can't then take and apply that as backing to a platform of "they outpaced you because they're superior", parsing out the objective vs subjective is a tall order.

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perhaps in our sport the younger newer players are the ones spending the most money. That would be an interesting stat to view, age vs money spent, etc.

Appreciate the dialog, thank you for commenting. It's fascinating to read and learn about the various aspects of the sport on and off the course.
Always happy to talk big picture. I just want to encourage dialogue at every turn, who knows who might see our talks and have a spark of brilliance and come up with the next big idea for the sport.

As to buying power...

It's actually a changing trend in marketing in general. A typical scenario with Baby Boomer parents is that the adults made the brand decisions - taught the kids what they liked (kinda like the jokes about "Red Vines vs. Twizzler families").

Nowadays with younger millennials and Gen Z, the kids are influencing the parents choices when it comes to brands, trends, etc.

So for this reason, the 30+ demographic may have the $, but they're not so much the driving force behind decisions as they were in the past. Couple this with the fact that traditional marketing simply doesn't work on millenials and Gen Z. Effective ad rates are at an all time low, so the tactics are evolving.

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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
As an aside, watching those made me feel guilty. Someone at Spin had great vision and marketing thought. I feel like we let them down. Sigh.
I feel like this is an appropriate time to wax poetic...

SpinTV was a catalyst in our sport. I'll always be proud of that. It will continue to exist I think, I'm not sure what the next evolution is for it, or if I'm involved (not being coy, I really don't know as of today). It'll likely be more focused on Europe, that's my guess. In fact it's my hope. If Jussi can execute the SpinTV vision but focus in on a region I think the depth of content could be amazing, and very enlightening to the all of us over here in the States. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Discmania and Innova are now producing content for their own channels instead of funneling it to SpinTV. It was kind of inevitable, unless we were to morph the channel into a standalone business, which I pitched actually, but it just didn't make as much sense to the owners of those brands. I can't really find fault in their logic.

I'm proud of what Jomez and CCDG have been able to do too. They're bearing the torch for tournament coverage. For a couple of years we stole the spotlight and they had to reconstruct their models a bit, and it worked. It's their time to be front and center and take in all the deserved kudos for their efforts. I think the sport benefits from the collaborative/competitive hybrid relationship. Of course we all want to be the marquee channel, but I think we're all very supportive at the same time and have that "if it's not me, I want it to be you" attitude.

Sidebar - I think that's why sometimes my comments about those guys get misconstrued as harsh criticism or "jealousy". It's not really like that.


All in all I guess this rambling is to say, don't feel bad. Look at what the last 5 years has brought all of us fans. Feel proud that you were there from the start of this movement, and we can both sit and sip a beer and complain that these 6-digit PDGA#'s don't know how good they have it!!

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  #93  
Old 06-21-2018, 07:31 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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BTW - I was just casually viewing YouTub, no, I wasn't pre-looking for the Utah Open, anyway, they claim there is now 950,000 disc golf videos. I wonder how many cat videos there are? Anyway, I'm thinking we should do a pool for who gets the "1,000,000 video."

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  #94  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:02 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Don't confuse tournament coverage with all disc golf media. Also don't forget that I hired Jomez multiple times, as did Jussi. Our coverage was homogeneous more recently. Even though they shot it, it's still our production, you can't fairly parse it out.

Our quality is on par, they do a couple things better, we do a couple things better. You may like one style over another, but you can't then take and apply that as backing to a platform of "they outpaced you because they're superior", parsing out the objective vs subjective is a tall order.



Always happy to talk big picture. I just want to encourage dialogue at every turn, who knows who might see our talks and have a spark of brilliance and come up with the next big idea for the sport.

As to buying power...

It's actually a changing trend in marketing in general. A typical scenario with Baby Boomer parents is that the adults made the brand decisions - taught the kids what they liked (kinda like the jokes about "Red Vines vs. Twizzler families").

Nowadays with younger millennials and Gen Z, the kids are influencing the parents choices when it comes to brands, trends, etc.

So for this reason, the 30+ demographic may have the $, but they're not so much the driving force behind decisions as they were in the past. Couple this with the fact that traditional marketing simply doesn't work on millenials and Gen Z. Effective ad rates are at an all time low, so the tactics are evolving.



I feel like this is an appropriate time to wax poetic...

SpinTV was a catalyst in our sport. I'll always be proud of that. It will continue to exist I think, I'm not sure what the next evolution is for it, or if I'm involved (not being coy, I really don't know as of today). It'll likely be more focused on Europe, that's my guess. In fact it's my hope. If Jussi can execute the SpinTV vision but focus in on a region I think the depth of content could be amazing, and very enlightening to the all of us over here in the States. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Discmania and Innova are now producing content for their own channels instead of funneling it to SpinTV. It was kind of inevitable, unless we were to morph the channel into a standalone business, which I pitched actually, but it just didn't make as much sense to the owners of those brands. I can't really find fault in their logic.

I'm proud of what Jomez and CCDG have been able to do too. They're bearing the torch for tournament coverage. For a couple of years we stole the spotlight and they had to reconstruct their models a bit, and it worked. It's their time to be front and center and take in all the deserved kudos for their efforts. I think the sport benefits from the collaborative/competitive hybrid relationship. Of course we all want to be the marquee channel, but I think we're all very supportive at the same time and have that "if it's not me, I want it to be you" attitude.

Sidebar - I think that's why sometimes my comments about those guys get misconstrued as harsh criticism or "jealousy". It's not really like that.


All in all I guess this rambling is to say, don't feel bad. Look at what the last 5 years has brought all of us fans. Feel proud that you were there from the start of this movement, and we can both sit and sip a beer and complain that these 6-digit PDGA#'s don't know how good they have it!!

Just wanted to link to my comment on another thread:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...75#post3321675
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  #95  
Old 06-23-2018, 03:43 PM
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skurf skurf is offline
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Didn't read whole thread and sorry if this has been asked/answered, but how many pros actually make a living from being a professional disc golfer? It can't be many. I'm guessing most of their money comes from sponsorships, but it's gotta be a hard living if you're not a top 5 player.
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  #96  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:30 PM
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wkelly42 wkelly42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Probably because of the slow growth and the fact that viewership is still comprised of mainly players of the sport. As the non player viewership percentage grows you should be able to have more diverse advertisers which would make those viewcount numbers more important.
Advertisers would rather have their message in front of 100 committed viewers that want to support sponsors that support their sport than 1,000 apathetic viewers that aren't paying attention to commercials at all. It's more about response rate than viewcount.

This is where NASCAR does so well -- people will support the folks who sponsor their favorite driver. I saw it happen in Atlanta, when Lowes started sponsoring a car. The car back then didn't do well at all (Brett Bodine at first, then Mike Skinner before they got Jimmy Johnson), but we had people coming into the store all the time saying that they stopped shopping at Home Depot (the hometown guys, with their corporate HQ downtown) because we started sponsoring a car. Home Depot mocked Lowes for sponsoring a car at first - then had their own car within a year or two. They saw the power of a group that was willing to support advertisers that support their sport. When we have a group that is willing to say "I'm going to drink Pepsi because they sponsored that tournament last week" we'll have something.

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  #97  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wkelly42 View Post
Advertisers would rather have their message in front of 100 committed viewers that want to support sponsors that support their sport than 1,000 apathetic viewers that aren't paying attention to commercials at all. It's more about response rate than viewcount.

This is where NASCAR does so well -- people will support the folks who sponsor their favorite driver. I saw it happen in Atlanta, when Lowes started sponsoring a car. The car back then didn't do well at all (Brett Bodine at first, then Mike Skinner before they got Jimmy Johnson), but we had people coming into the store all the time saying that they stopped shopping at Home Depot (the hometown guys, with their corporate HQ downtown) because we started sponsoring a car. Home Depot mocked Lowes for sponsoring a car at first - then had their own car within a year or two. They saw the power of a group that was willing to support advertisers that support their sport. When we have a group that is willing to say "I'm going to drink Pepsi because they sponsored that tournament last week" we'll have something.
Bingo.
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  #98  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:37 PM
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GoobyPls GoobyPls is offline
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Originally Posted by wkelly42 View Post
Advertisers would rather have their message in front of 100 committed viewers that want to support sponsors that support their sport than 1,000 apathetic viewers that aren't paying attention to commercials at all.

...

Home Depot mocked Lowes for sponsoring a car at first - then had their own car within a year or two. They saw the power of a group that was willing to support advertisers that support their sport. When we have a group that is willing to say "I'm going to drink Pepsi because they sponsored that tournament last week" we'll have something.
Look at the Grip6 thread for an example.
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  #99  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:59 PM
DanJon DanJon is offline
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Originally Posted by wkelly42 View Post
Advertisers would rather have their message in front of 100 committed viewers that want to support sponsors that support their sport than 1,000 apathetic viewers that aren't paying attention to commercials at all. It's more about response rate than viewcount.

This is where NASCAR does so well -- people will support the folks who sponsor their favorite driver. I saw it happen in Atlanta, when Lowes started sponsoring a car. The car back then didn't do well at all (Brett Bodine at first, then Mike Skinner before they got Jimmy Johnson), but we had people coming into the store all the time saying that they stopped shopping at Home Depot (the hometown guys, with their corporate HQ downtown) because we started sponsoring a car. Home Depot mocked Lowes for sponsoring a car at first - then had their own car within a year or two. They saw the power of a group that was willing to support advertisers that support their sport. When we have a group that is willing to say "I'm going to drink Pepsi because they sponsored that tournament last week" we'll have something.

Small disc golf specific businesses might see a bump in business by sponsoring Joe Pro or running ads.

Like to the tune of hundreds of people, or perhaps thousands of new customers, if they're lucky.

NASCAR is a different animal, in regards to large corporate sponsors.

That is an audience of hundreds of thousands, up to millions.

Corporate sponsors are not going to see that in disc golf.
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  #100  
Old 06-28-2018, 08:30 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by wkelly42 View Post
Advertisers would rather have their message in front of 100 committed viewers that want to support sponsors that support their sport than 1,000 apathetic viewers that aren't paying attention to commercials at all. It's more about response rate than viewcount.
I look at the "100" vs "1000" analogy as two different groups.

100 - Represents the current hardcore market. Advertising to them will probably not grow the sport. Lower risk, lower reward (due to only 100). Good group to advertise "disc golf specific items".

1000 - Represents a broader market reach. Advertising to them could grow the sport. Higher risk, higher reward (due to 1000). Good group to advertise a "belt buckle" or "shoes" or "generic sports related item".

Granted the sport's hardcore sponsors would want to focus on the "100", but the "sport itself" needs to also focus on those "1000" viewers. I wish the PDGA would somehow fund some of the better produced disc golf videos and pay to have them added to some of the more popular video channels for greater exposure.
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