Backhand technique help

[sidewinder22]

Need to start setup in neutral stance/foot flare(allows hip mobility/range of motion and effortless swivel/Power of Posture), so front foot/toes are pointed slightly targetward, and just slightly closed stance from rear foot.

Rear foot needs to be closer inline to door frame/few inches off line, and closer to target to turn back more upright through the hips. You should be fairly relaxed as your weight/butt does the pulling targetward, like you could hang for hours without burning any muscles in the body.

Note how I'm more centered/stacked over the rear foot with head and shoulder, while you are closer to the front foot.

[RandyC]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Need to start setup in neutral stance/foot flare(allows hip mobility/range of motion and effortless swivel/Power of Posture), so front foot/toes are pointed slightly targetward, and just slightly closed stance from rear foot.

Rear foot needs to be closer inline to door frame/few inches off line, and closer to target to turn back more upright through the hips. You should be fairly relaxed as your weight/butt does the pulling targetward, like you could hang for hours without burning any muscles in the body.

Note how I'm more centered/stacked over the rear foot with head and shoulder, while you are closer to the front foot.

Guess you could say that you are hanging from the door frame and SW is in a powerful position to rip the door frame off.

[sidewinder22]

Or making the revolving door spin much faster with body/arm whilst standing outside it.

[RandyC]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Or making the revolving door spin much faster with body/arm whilst standing outside it.

That´s such a good mental image.

[SuperWookie]

Originally Posted by RandyC

Guess you could say that you are hanging from the door frame and SW is in a powerful position to rip the door frame off.

So can you explain WHY it's better to be more neutral and in between your feet, as opposed to a more powerful position Tepi is in? In his position, he may be doing certain things differently than your photo. But I'm trying to learn here, and to me, he looks like he could rip the goal post off from that position, whereas you are just nice and relaxed and balanced in the middle...ie not as powerful. All his weight is pulling targetward, whereas you are just balanced and would be pulled off balance if you tried to rip on that goal post. So it seems, that in that position, that Tepi having his hips moved forward like that would create a HUGE pull on that goal post. Whereas if I'm just standing more neutral and upright, there is MUCH less weight to pull me forward, which means it's harder to pull more. Just like if I'm lifting weights. If I'm doing a seated cable row for ex. and I am leaning forward a bit or straight up and down, I DON'T have as much leverage, as if I leaned back a little right when the weight gets hard to pull. So isn't this the same idea? We want to eventually PULL a ton on the disc very quickly, and if you have more weight leaning forward, wouldn't that help you pull it from behind you?

I don't like to follow ideas blindly just because someone says so. I know your an expert, and I trust you, but having you explain why it's better, and more importantly why HIS position is not as good, and what problems can occur from his position will help me understand this. As I see his body position and think: WOW! Look at all that weight and power pulling on that goal post!

Thanks

[sidewinder22]

This sideways:

[RandyC]

Originally Posted by SuperWookie

So can you explain WHY it's better to be more neutral and in between your feet, as opposed to a more powerful position Tepi is in? In his position, he may be doing certain things differently than your photo. But I'm trying to learn here, and to me, he looks like he could rip the goal post off from that position, whereas you are just nice and relaxed and balanced in the middle...ie not as powerful. All his weight is pulling targetward, whereas you are just balanced and would be pulled off balance if you tried to rip on that goal post. So it seems, that in that position, that Tepi having his hips moved forward like that would create a HUGE pull on that goal post. Whereas if I'm just standing more neutral and upright, there is MUCH less weight to pull me forward, which means it's harder to pull more. Just like if I'm lifting weights. If I'm doing a seated cable row for ex. and I am leaning forward a bit or straight up and down, I DON'T have as much leverage, as if I leaned back a little right when the weight gets hard to pull. So isn't this the same idea? We want to eventually PULL a ton on the disc very quickly, and if you have more weight leaning forward, wouldn't that help you pull it from behind you?

I don't like to follow ideas blindly just because someone says so. I know your an expert, and I trust you, but having you explain why it's better, and more importantly why HIS position is not as good, and what problems can occur from his position will help me understand this. As I see his body position and think: WOW! Look at all that weight and power pulling on that goal post!

Thanks

Well we are trying to sling/swing a disc not pull a ton of weight. You don´t pull the disc as you wouldnt pull a bat when you swing it.

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by SuperWookie

So can you explain WHY it's better to be more neutral and in between your feet, as opposed to a more powerful position Tepi is in? In his position, he may be doing certain things differently than your photo. But I'm trying to learn here, and to me, he looks like he could rip the goal post off from that position, whereas you are just nice and relaxed and balanced in the middle...ie not as powerful. All his weight is pulling targetward, whereas you are just balanced and would be pulled off balance if you tried to rip on that goal post. So it seems, that in that position, that Tepi having his hips moved forward like that would create a HUGE pull on that goal post. Whereas if I'm just standing more neutral and upright, there is MUCH less weight to pull me forward, which means it's harder to pull more. Just like if I'm lifting weights. If I'm doing a seated cable row for ex. and I am leaning forward a bit or straight up and down, I DON'T have as much leverage, as if I leaned back a little right when the weight gets hard to pull. So isn't this the same idea? We want to eventually PULL a ton on the disc very quickly, and if you have more weight leaning forward, wouldn't that help you pull it from behind you?

I don't like to follow ideas blindly just because someone says so. I know your an expert, and I trust you, but having you explain why it's better, and more importantly why HIS position is not as good, and what problems can occur from his position will help me understand this. As I see his body position and think: WOW! Look at all that weight and power pulling on that goal post!

Thanks

Because this is backswing/transition drill and you still need to continue leverage forward - drag the door frame forward thru the swing and change direction/tilt/rotate during the swing and accelerate/push the disc out away from your center - you can't pull out away from center faster than you can push it out away. You should be slow and leveraged releasing from the door frame and then really accelerate after door frame/disc is passing center. Tepi is over committed one-way in a tug of war into center and would fall over if the other person let go and he couldn't tug or push the other person/door frame forward away from his center after turning targetward. His leverage is all spent at the top of the backswing. I'm ready for a two-way or 3-dimensional tug of war or Olympic Hammer Throw that is going to be pulling on me as I push it out away.

The body should be fairly effortless in this drill, it's mostly just your weight leveraging the door frame, not really all your muscles tensing and pulling/unwinding, but they will be loaded/winding back as your weight goes targetward.

[SuperWookie]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Because this is backswing/transition drill and you still need to continue leverage forward - drag the door frame forward thru the swing and change direction/tilt/rotate during the swing and accelerate/push the disc out away from your center - you can't pull out away from center faster than you can push it out away. You should be slow and leveraged releasing from the door frame and then really accelerate after door frame/disc is passing center. Tepi is over committed one-way in a tug of war into center and would fall over if the other person let go and he couldn't tug or push the other person/door frame forward away from his center after turning targetward. His leverage is all spent at the top of the backswing. I'm ready for a two-way or 3-dimensional tug of war or Olympic Hammer Throw that is going to be pulling on me as I push it out away.

The body should be fairly effortless in this drill, it's mostly just your weight leveraging the door frame, not really all your muscles tensing and pulling/unwinding, but they will be loaded/winding back as your weight goes targetward.

Thank you so much for explaining this! I really appreciate it!

I understand some of what you said, and it's very helpful. But some of these things I don't.

So you say PUSH the disc away twice. And I'm truly not understanding that use of the word in this context. To me, push is a shot put. The disc is in your shoulder/neck/chin region and you spin and PUSH it out away from you. But I can't think of any other sport like Disc golf that PUSHES. The definition of Push to me would be something close to your chest or shoulder (or your body), then PUSHING it out away from you. So a bench press, a shoulder press, a dip, a shot put, something along those lines. And since we are talking about throwing/slinging/whipping a disc, I don't understand at all how that word works in this context. Would you be so kind as to be able to explain what you mean by pushing the disc, and how that even works when we are throwing it, and how would I do that?

And related to that, I don't understand the idea you are speaking of in regards to: you can't pull out away from center faster than you can push it out away. Would you be so kind as to be able to explain that as well.

And I TOTALLY see what you're saying now and why it's better to be more balanced and centered then fully committed to the front! As well as building speed as you go along, not all at once when you let go of the door frame. You explained that really well and I understand that idea now, this is awesome! I've had a truly hard time understanding what that door frame drill is supposed to teach, and I still don't get it 100% yet, but this post is helping a LOT! And now when I do it, I will know a lot more of WHY I'm doing it and what I should be feeling. I'll try to film some of these when I go out next. There's a tiny bleacher where I throw that I could pull on and film this for you guys. And I think I'll start doing the Hershiser drills INTO the chain link on those bleachers, so I can practice over and over again the feeling of getting my hips slightly more forward early in the back swing.

Thanks man, that was very helpful!

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by SuperWookie

Thank you so much for explaining this! I really appreciate it!

I understand some of what you said, and it's very helpful. But some of these things I don't.

So you say PUSH the disc away twice. And I'm truly not understanding that use of the word in this context. To me, push is a shot put. The disc is in your shoulder/neck/chin region and you spin and PUSH it out away from you. But I can't think of any other sport like Disc golf that PUSHES. The definition of Push to me would be something close to your chest or shoulder (or your body), then PUSHING it out away from you. So a bench press, a shoulder press, a dip, a shot put, something along those lines. And since we are talking about throwing/slinging/whipping a disc, I don't understand at all how that word works in this context. Would you be so kind as to be able to explain what you mean by pushing the disc, and how that even works when we are throwing it, and how would I do that?

And related to that, I don't understand the idea you are speaking of in regards to: you can't pull out away from center faster than you can push it out away. Would you be so kind as to be able to explain that as well.

And I TOTALLY see what you're saying now and why it's better to be more balanced and centered then fully committed to the front! As well as building speed as you go along, not all at once when you let go of the door frame. You explained that really well and I understand that idea now, this is awesome! I've had a truly hard time understanding what that door frame drill is supposed to teach, and I still don't get it 100% yet, but this post is helping a LOT! And now when I do it, I will know a lot more of WHY I'm doing it and what I should be feeling. I'll try to film some of these when I go out next. There's a tiny bleacher where I throw that I could pull on and film this for you guys. And I think I'll start doing the Hershiser drills INTO the chain link on those bleachers, so I can practice over and over again the feeling of getting my hips slightly more forward early in the back swing.

Thanks man, that was very helpful!

Elbow flexion = pulling or swinging the disc into your center.
Elbow extension = pushing or swinging disc away from your center.
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