#31  
Old 08-26-2019, 12:50 AM
Ryan P.'s Avatar
Ryan P. Ryan P. is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Asheboro, NC
Years Playing: 13.7
Courses Played: 57
Posts: 1,693
Niced 53 Times in 32 Posts
Default

As far as my thoughts:

1. I would love seeing more variety in courses. I don't like standardization either, and I'm glad we're getting away from "every hole is a par 3" on both the scorecard and in design. In my ideal world that would include some long, open courses that are par 72 and some wooded ones that are 72.

2. From what I've seen, most of the courses that are a true par 72 range from mostly wooded to heavily wooded. I've yet to see a par 72 course that has even 5 open holes. Does anyone know of one?

3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).


Two thoughts on personal preference.

1. I'm tired of seeing par 3s. I've seen the same old par 3s on courses, and I'm more interested in seeing new and unique par 4s and 5s. I know they are out there, but if I find the par 3s I haven't played on a course with 17 other par 3s that I have played, it won't be a fun day for me.

2. There are many ways to improve current courses, and moving earth is one of them. I agree that we should be careful about the environment, and there are ways of doing that while moving dirt. But moving dirt/adding rocks/adding bushes all involve more work/increased difficulty/increased par.
Sponsored Links

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:55 AM
dreadlock86's Avatar
dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DFW, tx
Years Playing: 12.6
Courses Played: 327
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,917
Niced 291 Times in 146 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
As for par 72, I'm not sure we want courses with only four par threes. Or sport is deeply rooted in par threes, and we have the ability to make so many more interesting par threes. And we can still make good par threes where a driver is a good choice off the tee, which doesn't happen in ball golf.

what's a good par three design that you haven't seen yet?

also, do you think there are course features that we haven't seen yet that could become commonplace in the future if greater resources were available?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:34 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pierre, South Dakota, USA
Years Playing: 16.5
Courses Played: 25
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 4,793
Niced 796 Times in 675 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
The fact that we can make more interesting par threes (I guess you mean more interesting than ball golf) isn't an argument for more pars 3s. We can make more interesting par 4s and 5s as well. The same logic should apply to them.

Yeah but what John Houck is saying is that more of the Par 3 then anything get boring after a while so boring that they are what are the par 2 on a par 3 now a few of these are on aging courses from when best tech for discs to play disc golf with was what are now called putter discs from these companies, but the majority are just on land that a 18 hole course could be better suited to making a 9-15 hole course or a spot where a 9 hole course should not go in. Sorry I do not think less then 9-8 holes should be a course unless they are making and calling it a practice and warm up type course/first time player course.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:12 AM
ru4por's Avatar
ru4por ru4por is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dearborn Michigan
Years Playing: 36.6
Courses Played: 248
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,987
Niced 1,738 Times in 757 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
As far as my thoughts:

1. I would love seeing more variety in courses. I don't like standardization either, and I'm glad we're getting away from "every hole is a par 3" on both the scorecard and in design. In my ideal world that would include some long, open courses that are par 72 and some wooded ones that are 72.

2. From what I've seen, most of the courses that are a true par 72 range from mostly wooded to heavily wooded. I've yet to see a par 72 course that has even 5 open holes. Does anyone know of one?

3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).


Two thoughts on personal preference.

1. I'm tired of seeing par 3s. I've seen the same old par 3s on courses, and I'm more interested in seeing new and unique par 4s and 5s. I know they are out there, but if I find the par 3s I haven't played on a course with 17 other par 3s that I have played, it won't be a fun day for me.

2. There are many ways to improve current courses, and moving earth is one of them. I agree that we should be careful about the environment, and there are ways of doing that while moving dirt. But moving dirt/adding rocks/adding bushes all involve more work/increased difficulty/increased par.
Well thought out, Ryan.

I don't really want to play any wide open par 72 courses. We have a few on golf courses and it just feels like field work. I guess a golf cart and a cooler of beer could be a fun afternoon with a few friends, but that is really not what my game is about anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:19 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 24.6
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 6,722
Niced 2,159 Times in 898 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
As far as my thoughts:

1. I would love seeing more variety in courses. I don't like standardization either, and I'm glad we're getting away from "every hole is a par 3" on both the scorecard and in design. In my ideal world that would include some long, open courses that are par 72 and some wooded ones that are 72.

2. From what I've seen, most of the courses that are a true par 72 range from mostly wooded to heavily wooded. I've yet to see a par 72 course that has even 5 open holes. Does anyone know of one?
Lake Marshall- The Lions will have that many mostly open holes when complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).
The difficulty with designing even decent open par 5's in disc golf is the huge disparity in throwing distances of players. If they are long enough for the long throwers to be challenged to birdie they become a boring slog for the rest. If they are short enough to be interesting for the bulk of the field the long throwers eat them up like candy and eagles are commonplace. In my experience I can come up with good par 4 holes at the drop of a hat on virtually any property. Good par 5's on the other hand require better land and exponentially more brain power on my part.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:22 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 24.6
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 6,722
Niced 2,159 Times in 898 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post

As for par 72, I'm not sure we want courses with only four par threes. Or sport is deeply rooted in par threes, and we have the ability to make so many more interesting par threes. And we can still make good par threes where a driver is a good choice off the tee, which doesn't happen in ball golf.
I agree completely with this.

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:30 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 22
Courses Played: 151
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,889
Niced 3,839 Times in 1,584 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).
The course used at the Music City Open in Nashville this year is probably a good example of what true par 72 looks like on an "open" course. It measured 13,496 feet and 71 was rated exactly 1000. There's a drone flyover preview video up, obviously done before the course was installed, and it's a lot of open space with some elevation change. Looks like torture to me.

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:45 AM
Smigles Smigles is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Switzerland
Courses Played: 9
Posts: 2,376
Niced 76 Times in 49 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Designjah View Post
I think the Tampere Disc Golf Center (Finland) did some terra forming. I think some of the elevation and ponds were man-made specifically for the course. That place looks badass:
https://www.discgolfpark.com/course/...c-golf-center/

I'll definitely need to check it out next time I'm in Finland...
Jussi talks a bit about the logistics and whatnot during the opening event coverage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ7iDSdI2B4

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:27 AM
Ryan P.'s Avatar
Ryan P. Ryan P. is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Asheboro, NC
Years Playing: 13.7
Courses Played: 57
Posts: 1,693
Niced 53 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Well thought out, Ryan.

I don't really want to play any wide open par 72 courses. We have a few on golf courses and it just feels like field work. I guess a golf cart and a cooler of beer could be a fun afternoon with a few friends, but that is really not what my game is about anymore.
I wasn't as clear as I should have been with my distinction between open and wooded. I think the simplest way to communicate the distinction is that an open hole has grass in the fairways/around the green, and a wooded course does not. That isn't always the case (hole 12 at northwood comes to mind), but it's an easy way to communicate my ideas.

With that said, I agree that it'd be really hard to design. There would have to be multiple tees (I'm thinking 3 at a minimum, but 4 or even 5 would be better). There would need to be a ton of elevation, as well as other hazards (bushes, water, well placed trees, etc.) However, the disparity between the relative few that exist and the amount of courses in the world doesn't seem right in my mind. However, maybe I just haven't played them ...
Reply With Quote
 

  #40  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:41 AM
Ryan P.'s Avatar
Ryan P. Ryan P. is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Asheboro, NC
Years Playing: 13.7
Courses Played: 57
Posts: 1,693
Niced 53 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Lake Marshall- The Lions will have that many mostly open holes when complete.



The difficulty with designing even decent open par 5's in disc golf is the huge disparity in throwing distances of players. If they are long enough for the long throwers to be challenged to birdie they become a boring slog for the rest. If they are short enough to be interesting for the bulk of the field the long throwers eat them up like candy and eagles are commonplace. In my experience I can come up with good par 4 holes at the drop of a hat on virtually any property. Good par 5's on the other hand require better land and exponentially more brain power on my part.
Glad to know they are being built.

I agree that it takes more brain power, but part of that is due to the fact that disc golf hasn't built those courses. The fact that relatively few exist makes it harder to think about the possibilities. The more people try and get it wrong, the more we will get it right.

People with more distance should have an advantage on some holes. But they should also be punished accordingly for a bad shot. I think that's a good start to thinking about how to design those holes. Make sure there is water, trees, or some obstacle next to the ideal landing zone, or make someone with more power have to take a different and harder line to use their distance advantage.

The sum of all my thoughts are that there should be more courses like this (par 72, both wooded and open), and it's going to take some time and some failures to make good ones, but we should try and eventually we will make good ones. I think we should make them because there is a huge disparity between the amount of par 54 courses and par 72 courses. Heck, I'd love to see a par 76 course. I certainly don't want to get rid of good par 54 courses.

Is anyone able to get into the database and see what the par is for all 18 hole courses around the world? I'd love to see a standard distribution broken down by nation and state. I'm looking at you Tim G
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Legit Par 2's? duckychucky Course Design 222 05-30-2016 10:41 PM
Poorly designed par 4,5,and par 6 holes and bad high par courses optidiscic Course Design 159 09-12-2014 11:53 AM
Disc golf of golf courses: the future of disc golf? & Sequoyah State Park in Oklahoma Dan H. Disc Golf Courses 27 06-19-2013 01:21 PM
Par 72 Disc Golf? kfellmy General Disc Golf Chat 9 05-04-2012 11:38 PM
I don't understand Disc Golf Par Piqsid General Disc Golf Chat 88 06-29-2010 09:13 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.