OB islands

[mopar]

On ball golf courses we often see the greens or sand traps being OB for disc golf.

Do you think these type of "island OB" areas that dot a fairway are something that could be utilized more often to increase the challenge, if the terrain presented itself, on non-ball golf courses?

I'm interested in hearing people's opinion on these type of OB areas.

[R-Ogre]

Maybe in small amounts like say one hole...otherwise it just gets gimmicky. Always better to use natural OB, if we wanted to throw frisbees in an open flat field we’d play ultimate...

[Three Putt]

Basically anything like random OB spots are there because the hole is no good and you are artificially trying to create a challenge where otherwise there isn't one. So my default answer is I'd rather play a a good hole than a hole with a contrived gimmick challenge.

Having said that, in designing sometimes you have to work with what you have. So creating OB can add some challenge. It just has to be done with a good hole design philosophy like any element of a disc golf hole.

[Three Putt]

Originally Posted by R-Ogre

Maybe in small amounts like say one hole...otherwise it just gets gimmicky. Always better to use natural OB, if we wanted to throw frisbees in an open flat field we’d play ultimate...

This is a good point. Challenge doesn't always = better. If you have a terrible boring open course and add in a bunch of artificial OB, it doesn't make it a better course. It will be a terrible boring open course that scores higher because OB was added. It works for tournaments most of the time, but for everyday play it doesn't work at all. So it somewhat depends on why you are adding it. Are you adding it for everyday use? People will probably ignore it and it won't have been worth the time to add it. Are you setting it up for a tournament? Tournament players will probably like it if it is done in a way that is fair.

[mopar]

Lets not assume open holes. Also, lets not assume the area doesnt presents itself that way naturally where these type of distinct areas are present.

The first couple responses have made some assumptions that weren't part of the question.

If there were small ponds that dotted a fairway instead of calling them island OB holes would that change your thought process?

What if the question was, are you ok with a fairway having small ponds the player has to avoid?

Do you dislike these type of areas on ball golf courses?

I do understand the "gimmicky" feel. Do you think that starts to feel gimmicky on ball golf courses? Should I design holes on a ball golf course in a way that holes only use these type of ob islands sparingly if possible?

[Countchunkula]

Originally Posted by mopar

Lets not assume open holes. Also, lets not assume the area doesnt presents itself that way naturally where these type of distinct areas are present.

The first couple responses have made some assumptions that weren't part of the question.

If there were small ponds that dotted a fairway instead of calling them island OB holes would that change your thought process?

What if the question was, are you ok with a fairway having small ponds the player has to avoid?

Do you dislike these type of areas on ball golf courses?

I do understand the "gimmicky" feel. Do you think that starts to feel gimmicky on ball golf courses? Should I design holes on a ball golf course in a way that holes only use these type of ob islands sparingly if possible?

To the bolded: The risk is that having small ob areas might not fairly reward good and bad shots. If the ob areas are in close proximity to one another, some bad throws will finish in bounds, in between the ob areas and some bad shots will finish out of bounds. I think as longs as your ob areas are separated by reasonably sized landing areas, you could have a fair design. If the ob areas are close together, you run the risk of some bad shots being punished while others are not.

I'm not entirely opposed to artificial ob, so I'm ignoring the distinction between natural and unnatural ob.

[Three Putt]

Originally Posted by mopar

If there were small ponds that dotted a fairway instead of calling them island OB holes would that change your thought process?

I guess I can't wrap my head around ponds so small that several could dot a disc golf fairway. So I can't imagine that type of hole in my head. Sorry.

[BogeyNoMore]

I agree with what 3P said to the point that I feel comfortable letting him speak for me (although he may not necessarily feel comfortable with it).

When playing holes with artificial/contrived OB, I've often felt that if the OB area were a naturally occurring pond, it would somehow seem more acceptable. But the reality is, it's just a whole lot easier to get your disc back from an OB sand trap.

It's just plain easier for me to accept OB when:

1) It makes sense to me.

2) It's obvious before you throw, where it is.

Playing a course with lots of OB can be particularly tough if you only play it a couple of times.

[mopar]

Fair points. Thanks.
So design away from putting greens and sand trap obstacles if possible is what I'm taking from this. But, like anything, it depends on the alternative...

[Three Putt]

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore

Playing a course with lots of OB can be particularly tough if you only play it a couple of times.

Get ready to disagree with me: I really think OB is mostly a tournament setup thing and really should be avoided for the most part in regular course design.

I know this is not the pervading logic as there seems to be some sort of thrill for people to throw over water, but all of those "throw over or beside a lake" holes I know of have diver problem with the land owners not being happy about folks jumping in the lake to search for discs. It's an actual liability issue.

The other factor is that casual players just don't obey it. OB creek? Whatever, just throw from there. The creek for casual play is just a factor of how hard it is to throw out of, not so much that it is technically OB.

Really when you rely on OB in the course design it's only going to effect tournament rounds or rounds played by guys expecting to play in a tournament round. Everybody else is going to ignore it. I think it can be something that tournament layouts can use, but if the basic course design is dependent on it the basic course design is going to be lost on most people who play it.