#721  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:20 PM
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chevis chevis is offline
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Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
I'm not a fan of hole 4. It simply is not fun to watch. I get the idea, but the 2nd mando needs to change. If you want to create a tunnel shot on that hole at least 1 mando is necessary. I think if the first mando is placed in the right spot then players will still be forced to throw a straight shot. If they hit a tree after that, then they can likely make an easy PAR, but it is what it is. No reason to create a 250 foot layup for every competitor.
I think only the 2nd double mando is needed; not many players will choose to throw outside of the tunnel. i feel the real problem with 4 is that it comes after 3 which has a somewhat similar double mando. if 4 was somewhere inbetween all those holes with the ropes, i think it would feel better
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  #722  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:37 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Originally Posted by BuiltTooLong View Post
... Not that it should be a requirement, but I think it would behoove Andrew to register and compete in a few tournaments to give him the perspective of a competitor. Having the angst of not being able to see your landing spots and other mental anguish players deal with could significantly benefit his course design.
Note that Master Designer, John Houck, has not played a sanctioned round in the past 20 years so he has no rating. But I agree with the idea that designers can get a better perspective with experience in competition.


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  #723  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:42 PM
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BuiltTooLong BuiltTooLong is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Note that Master Designer, John Houck, has not played a sanctioned round in the past 20 years so he has no rating.
I've seen you call him out on that before, but at least Houck has had 11 years of PDGA tournament play. I believe those 11 years of competitive play surely has played some role in his designing prowess.
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  #724  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:45 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Originally Posted by BuiltTooLong View Post
I've seen you call him out on that before, but at least Houck has had 11 years of PDGA tournament play. I believe those 11 years of competitive play surely has played some role in his designing prowess.
If you can't or won't play competitively, just casually, you can eventually become a good enough designer from study and especially observation, both of players competing and analyzing scoring data for fine tuning designs.
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  #725  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:51 PM
bhadella bhadella is offline
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Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
In my mind, hole 3 is not that much different than 1 at Maple Hill Gold. I think it's more about the manufactured feel than the way the hole plays. Maybe it's because Maple Hill has the Christmas trees and road that frame up the landing zone for the players. What I noticed at Winthrop is players not giving much thought to the landing area. At least it seemed that way on video. Maple Hill hole 1 produces the same kind of results though. Land where you need to, or lay up to the mouth. Obviously Maple Hill is a way better hole with the lake, elevation, cool green cut into the woods, but from a strategy and scoring perspective, I'm not sure it's that much different. Maybe Steve can put them on a graph for us.
If you land in the lake, you don't move up to a 80' jump putt drop zone. That's the biggest issue with 4, people miss the mando on teeshot and get rewarded with an auto par. The teeshot has zero risk at all (other than somehow throwing so left that you get on other side of pine trees). The teeshot at Maple Hill has all kinds of risk. As does the upshot.

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  #726  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:38 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is offline
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If they keep the hole as is, the golf green should be OB and maybe move the basket backwards so its stuffed in the space between the green and bunker a bit more.
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  #727  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bhadella View Post
If you land in the lake, you don't move up to a 80' jump putt drop zone. That's the biggest issue with 4, people miss the mando on teeshot and get rewarded with an auto par. The teeshot has zero risk at all (other than somehow throwing so left that you get on other side of pine trees). The teeshot at Maple Hill has all kinds of risk. As does the upshot.
I agree that there's little risk on the tee shot of 3, but I kind of like that aspect. On a course with so many punishing OBs and mandos and hazards, it's refreshing to have a wide open bomber with a less punitive double-mando. The easy par if you miss the mando off the tee incentivizes players to try and make the mando off the tee--which is exciting! How friggin sweet would it be if someone rolled one through the double mando? (Not sure that anyone did, at least not in the rounds I've watched.)

And for anyone who does miss the mando on their tee shot, and accomplish the fairly routine up-and-down scramble for par, remember that they got there by throwing a ~600' bomb or a well executed roller! I guess I'm not too sour about that result. They still did better than someone who missed the mando on their 2nd throw and wound up with a 5 from the drop zone, and the scores fairly reflect that.

Last edited by ThrowBot; 10-09-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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  #728  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:48 PM
ToddL ToddL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhadella View Post
If you land in the lake, you don't move up to a 80' jump putt drop zone. That's the biggest issue with 4, people miss the mando on teeshot and get rewarded with an auto par. The teeshot has zero risk at all (other than somehow throwing so left that you get on other side of pine trees). The teeshot at Maple Hill has all kinds of risk. As does the upshot.
In order to miss the mando on the tee shot on 3, you have to throw it around 600'. That's a pretty tall task, even for the big arm players.
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  #729  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:05 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
it would be a yearly subscription model
IMO the above seems to make the most sense to me as a consumer. Not sure about the monthly part, but a one time fee to the production company for access to their content is simple and I know what to expect from previous years free content.

If the consumer demand allows for a production company to require payment for access, then more power to them. Seems simple enough - if these companies are good at their craft, they should get paid for their efforts.

I, in now way, claim to know if this move would generate funds for the companies to further progress their products or if it would result in them "biting the hand that feeds them" and causing some sort of negative divide. You guys with the inside knowledge I am sure have a handle on the timing of any changes.

I would support the change, but that is coming from a person who feels spoiled and blessed to be witness to the birth, growth and coming of age of disc golf media. I am from a time where I would order the VHS tape of Worlds, wait the 6 or so months to get the tape and have no problem with "spoilers" during that time.

I do not even think "spoilers" were invented until 2003 or so.

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  #730  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:35 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by frasnow View Post
Nice to see a backhand thrower win the United States Forehand Championships. James certainly proved people wrong. Or maybe it is just the putt-putt course scrambling the scores.
Actually it was the Course being so tight due to skinny in bounds, not so much putter only/friendly course being what helped James Conrad, this is where James Conrad Shines is on Courses that are long and tight with OB. That and trying to make the course penalize Paul McBeth due to going from Innova to Discraft by going to where Paul Normally wants to go on the Older OB markings that did not help most of the rest of the field. You saw some who play well on tight courses almost win but for the majority of the players the course was just tight and badly designed for some of the OB. Of course the Odd weather could have played a factor on some of the players as well.

I did like new hole 4 very well despite what others have thought of it. It was hole 3 that needs a redo possibly on the Drop Zone if a top level pro (Eagle) is going drop zone on purpose to make it easier for his style of game.

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