#771  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:24 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
You're just going to brush that off as a, "he never liked me" thing? lol...whatever. Regardless of how much Streets likes you or doesn't like you your little conspiracy theory on them rearranging Winthrop OB to make it harder for McBeth just because he left Innova is the single stupidest thing I have ever read on DGCR.
Not sure but it looks that way with how Paul tried to go where he normally would in other years yet was in OB this year.

Of Course the More Logical Explanation is that Paul mentally is done after winning worlds. One can see it in how he is playing and not really being all that focused when executing shots in tournaments.
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  #772  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:31 PM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
Of Course the More Logical Explanation is that Paul mentally is done after winning worlds. One can see it in how he is playing and not really being all that focused when executing shots in tournaments.
Stick with that theory and forget the other one. Please.
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  #773  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:20 PM
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rhatton1 rhatton1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post

Of Course the More Logical Explanation is that Paul mentally is done after winning worlds. One can see it in how he is playing and not really being all that focused when executing shots in tournaments.
And the most logical thing is to accept him at his word that he reinjured his ankle on the very first putt of the first round. There is video evidence to back it up. Let’s just go with that shall we.

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  #774  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:12 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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The bar for "More Logical" was set pretty low.

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  #775  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:15 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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In the meantime, I sort of wish some moderator could combine a couple of threads: the one complaining about what a poor experience watching the USDGC is, and the one complaining about being unable to watch it (the way they want).
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  #776  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:37 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
When 17 was first set up, the only rule which would allow for re-tee was OB. That's no longer the case. Don't you think Relief Area (re-tee throwing 2, instead of re-tee throwing 3) would be enough risk to generate interest? Doesn't the engagement come from seeing the player standing on the tee throwing again and again? And from being able to clearly see whether the throw will or won't land on the island. Without the penalty, viewers might be even more engaged because they could count the throws directly.

How much more interest do you think is created by that made-up invisible extra penalty for each miss?

Is it enough to be worth the cost of giving this one little hole so much influence over final standings? Doesn't it reduce interest in other holes?
From a game construction standpoint the weight Hole 17 carries is absurd. I still think that the higher the score attainable the greater the engagement though. People remember McCray's blowup there precisely because the number was so high. It appeals to the same lowest common denominator lizard brain within people as reality tv. How important that is depends on the goals of the event.

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  #777  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:40 PM
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DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
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Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
So does the 80 foot layup zone off of 17s tee still exist? Do players even practice that as a Plan B, say for windy conditions, or going into the hole on the final round with a 4 stroke lead? It still baffles me that after all these years, we never see this, at least on lead cards.

Did Feldberg do it this year? I guess not as he got a 2 in round 2. He shot 1 down on the hole overall so good for him.

It's almost a guaranteed island hit on that 2nd shot because it opens up and allows for a wide hyzer (left or right) coming in. It's much easier to control speed coming into the green. 4 seems to be worst case scenario there. Is it an ego thing?????
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Hitting the layup is almost as risky as trying for the fat part of the island. The laid up disc could go too far and into OB. If you want to play safe, going for the middle of the island is the smarter choice. If you can reach it.
Steve, seems like we had this disagreement last year about H17.

I still disagree with your conclusions that laying up is a low-benefit strategy.
Nothing is without risk, admittedly, but laying up at H17 this year was relatively safe and the second throw is ~200' downhill and open.
There was a wide, flat space to lay up, about 80' in front of the tee. Plus, a lay up gives you a clear view of the green and allows a hyzer onto the green.
If H17 doesn't have this lay-up area, the discussion changes.
If the players feel like they have to go for the green from the tee, they bear the consequences.
It may be a question of practice in Conrad's case, but the lay-up is a safer play and especially for players who are tired or stressed and under pressure, it's good strategy.
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  #778  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:48 PM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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Originally Posted by notroman View Post
I had the chance to play USDGC in 2012 and 2013. Whether I ran the green on 17 depended on how confident I felt that day. Usually my attempts at running the green resulted in the red flag. The lay up play for me was just a jump putt off the tee - didn't need to cover more than 80-100 feet in order to get a wide open righty hyzer line to the green.
I laid up every time when I played in 2012. Laying up was an easy high percentage toss. Hitting the green from the layup area is a much easier shot than from the tee. I went 4434 and I'm a sub 900 player... I also wasn't worrying about my finish position so the mental stress of the hole didn't affect me as much.

The stat showing the stress of that hole on the leaders: Top 9 finishers averaged 4.7 for Hole 17 in R4. Next 9 finishers averaged 3.7 for Hole 17. That hole gets in a player's head so much more when the title is on the line. Every player knows the history of that hole. If you want the title, you have to pass that test.

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  #779  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:02 PM
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DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
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Originally Posted by Harold Duvall View Post
Hi Steve, Like many models of the psyche, there are three people running around inside my design head. My question gives voice to the sportsman in me. Despite falling further than any open division champion, my inner athlete still wants to know that the throws are pretty doable and to be presented with some interesting strategy choices. *

Then there is the game design, accountability, math guy in me who wants to have the best matching of score to demonstrated skill. This guy does not like throw-and-distance at all. He would opt for more progressive drop zones and distance only penalties. This guy loves talking to Steve West and Chuck Kennedy.

Finally there is my inner Pete May. He wants to make disc golf spectacular. He wants players to experience "the thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat." If we do this right, the spectators will be hooked to the "human drama of athletic competition." This drama is experienced mostly by the player in traditional disc golf.

The challenge is for young Harold, Pete, Steve and Chuck to play nicely together. That's the motivation for the original question. I agree that there is no need to add two to a score for traditional disc golf which is mostly for the players. Championship disc golf, which is also about the spectator, may need *some bad shots to count two to increase the emotional engagement for both player and spectator. But in either traditional or Championship disc golf, good throws with good strategy should be in. *

~ Harold
Harold,
I appreciate that you give us a window into the thought process.
Winthrop Gold is your playground, and you have the right to establish goals and priorities for the course and tournament.
Personally, I'm much more in touch with the Steve and Chuck guy,
so the Pete May guy really puzzles me.
Still, I'll most likely be there next year because I love watching the high-level Pros execute their game,
but the Pete May guy is really pushing me to wonder if it's worth enduring the circus show to watch the professional disc golf.

This is not meant to change your focus or strategy.
It is just the opinion of one disc golfer,
and he absolutely recognizes your right to do things your way.

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Last edited by DiscJunkie; 10-10-2019 at 10:05 PM.
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  #780  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhatton1 View Post
And the most logical thing is to accept him at his word that he reinjured his ankle on the very first putt of the first round. There is video evidence to back it up. Let’s just go with that shall we.
Logic and reality aren't in Casey's wheelhouse.

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