#51  
Old 10-24-2019, 09:34 AM
Spinthrift Spinthrift is offline
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While it's not an NT, it should be noted at the DGPT Championship the payout was the same for MPO and FPO, with field sizes of 32 and 16.
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  #52  
Old 10-24-2019, 10:16 AM
perklc perklc is offline
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Then it probably should also be noted that it was only the same for the top 4 in the tournament and for the points payout (top 3 in season points).
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  #53  
Old 10-25-2019, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
Modern day sports are simply not unequal in any way. There is no systematic limits placed on women in sports at all.

Sports, regardless of gender, are equally likely to make you a star and millionaire as they are to drop you in a heart beat if you can not compete at the expected levels of your peers.

The business of sports is blind to gender and only considers the dollar signs.

Read my earlier post about touring players - their choice, their risk, their reward or failure. No one was crying a river for the male players in the early days that had to pack up their dreams and go back to their 9-5 grind.

If you are advocating to up the finances of ALL touring Pros, I could get on board. But as soon as it is presented as women are battling some imaginary evil that is holding them back - I am out. I do not support treating women as some disabled demographic that is in need of saving at every corner of life.

Honestly, it is quite disrespectful to the women who stand on their own two feet and have carved out a good life in this sport or any other aspect of life.
Pure naive nonsense. Your attempt to tie preachy platitudes about sports to a buried-head interpretation of equality is barf-worthy aside from being incorrect.

Nobody is saying anyone is battling some imaginary evil. It's a very simple proposition - a tank of gas costs the same whether you're competing in MPO or FPO, whether you're 950 or 1050 rated. If you are the PDGA, and you want to incentivize growth of pro ranks, and you have already created a BONUS structure that rewards the player with the best overall combo of participation + placement at NT's all season long, why not equalize it?

Pros:
- It is a token gesture (only costs about $12k) that is first worth it's value in PR gains, and second make a public statement that they consider the profession equal across gender.

- It recognizes the fact that while the tournament purses are divvy'd up by participation ratios (correctly so in my opinion), that the players still compete to the same relative degree of effort and time.

- It recognizes that young boys and girls both should have athletes to look up to, and this rewards those players for taking the risk of being on the road for 40 weeks out of the year.


Cons:

- It makes dudes who make shallow arguments full of falsehoods mad on the internet.

- Name ANYTHING else bad that this move creates. I'll wait.

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  #54  
Old 10-25-2019, 04:00 PM
bwgort bwgort is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinthrift View Post
While it's not an NT, it should be noted at the DGPT Championship the payout was the same for MPO and FPO, with field sizes of 32 and 16.
I believe the payout was only the same for the Top 4. The rest of the payout was different. https://www.dgpt.com/uploads/6/5/1/8...yout_dk-01.png
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  #55  
Old 10-25-2019, 10:50 PM
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Wow. It looks to me like they gave the FPO a bigger chuck of the purse. Half the competitors but more cash per person. Does the FPO generate more revenue?
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  #56  
Old 10-25-2019, 10:54 PM
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Pay the ladies. Grow the sport.

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  #57  
Old 10-26-2019, 01:10 AM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Pure naive nonsense. Your attempt to tie preachy platitudes about sports to a buried-head interpretation of equality is barf-worthy aside from being incorrect.
I am correct and have not interpreted anything, just stated reality.

Quote:
Nobody is saying anyone is battling some imaginary evil.
You are by advocating that women should get more than men due solely to their genitalia, as if their genitalia is some how holding them back. That they should get more than ANY other Pro of another gender, because of (Insert illogical reason here). Must be some reason they deserve more for equal work. Also, your original post started of with the imaginary evil that floats around and holds down women.

Quote:
It's a very simple proposition - a tank of gas costs the same whether you're competing in MPO or FPO, whether you're 950 or 1050 rated.
This actually supports my premise, thank you for recognizing that it is irrelevant if you are male or female. Everyone pays the same to tour, no need to pretend there is a disabled class of players that deserve more for doing the exact same thing.

Quote:
If you are the PDGA, and you want to incentivize growth of pro ranks, and you have already created a BONUS structure that rewards the player with the best overall combo of participation + placement at NT's all season long, why not equalize it?
Growth in the Pro ranks does not equate paying one group arbitrarily over another. No one is asking for any other protected division to be paid more, while being smaller and not generating the same interest, revenue and media numbers.

There is no reason to "equalize" something that is unequal. Your desire to do so adds no validity to the idea. Again - take gender out of it and you have no argument at all.

Hypothetical numbers:
Group A had 2500 participants / generated $10,000 revenue / 1,000,000 views on media
Group B had 500 participants / generated $5,000 revenue / 100,000 views on media

Why would Group B be considered the same as Group A in any measurable factor? And why would any entity, business or investor pay Group B equal to Group A looking at the numbers? No need to answer, there is no reason.

Quote:
Pros:
- It is a token gesture (only costs about $12k) that is first worth it's value in PR gains, and second make a public statement that they consider the profession equal across gender.
It is a "token" gesture and is unneeded on any practical level. The FPO represent themselves outstandingly and do not need a hand out from anyone. You should really stop disrespecting these players, they are competitors and ask for no help from anyone.

- No FPO player asks another FPO player to spot them 3 strokes on the back nine.
- No FPO player who came in 3rd and won $1000 asks her competitor who came in 2nd and won $1500 to give her $500 from her $1500 after the event is over just "because". <This is basically your argument summed up.

They EARN it and you are minimalizing that to all but nothing.

"...consider the profession equal across gender." The profession is not equal across genders and there is no reason to pretend it is.

Quote:
- It recognizes the fact that while the tournament purses are divvy'd up by participation ratios (correctly so in my opinion), that the players still compete to the same relative degree of effort and time.
If you agree that "purses are divvy'd up by participation ratios (correctly so in my opinion)" then that really ends your argument completely. The rest of your opinion is moot as the basis of my point is agreed upon by you yourself.

Quote:
- It recognizes that young boys and girls both should have athletes to look up to, and this rewards those players for taking the risk of being on the road for 40 weeks out of the year.
Boys and Girls currently have athletes to look up to NOW. Why are you valuing the current FPO field, their efforts and amazing skills lower than what they have brought us all year? Again, any player who takes the risk to go on tour does so per their choice - no one was concerned or whining when the pioneers of this sport took the risk and went on tour only to have their dreams crushed and return to their 9-5 grinds.

You are not advocating for the risk of ALL pro tour players, you are selectively being biased and only considering the females, save the "40 weeks out of the year" for some other SJW narrative blinded person.

Quote:
Cons:

- It makes dudes who make shallow arguments full of falsehoods mad on the internet.
You are projecting here. My logic is based on simple math and makes complete sense in any endeavor. Two separate Wall Street brokers - one produces $4Million and the other $10Million do not get the same bonuses.

Quote:
- Name ANYTHING else bad that this move creates. I'll wait.
You will not have to wait long - it is simply unfair to favor one group over another with no basis for that favor. Add to that, one group produces more than the other on all measurable fronts and favoring the lesser producing group is biased beyond reason.

"Pure naοve and barf-worthy nonsense" has only been presented by yourself.

Your inability to separate yourself from the genders of the two groups blinds you to simple, logic, math and reason.
____________

Now that I have corrected you on your well intended but false presumptions, I can simplify things.

I do not care one way or another if the PDGA, DGPT or Lloyd Weema Inc. adds a billion dollars to the FPO payout for any event - any tour - anything.

BUT, to take the stance that doing so is FAIR - is completely incorrect.

I will offer an Olive-Branch' to you, since I am not the kind of person to agree to disagree when I am absolutely right. My response has been EQUAL to yours on the level of snarky' and I believe we can find a mutually satisfying place to end our debate.

Here is said Olive Branch' - I can agree that equalizing the FPO payout to MPO payout would be a nice gesture, not a lot of funds in the overall picture, be a good look PR wise and help some touring pros continue their dreams...….if you can simply agree that it would be an inequity and unfair.

Deal?
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  #58  
Old 10-26-2019, 01:15 AM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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Who is this Chains character and why should I care?
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  #59  
Old 10-26-2019, 01:43 AM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Who is this Chains character and why should I care?
I know the guy and there is no reason to care at all.

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  #60  
Old 10-26-2019, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
I know the guy and there is no reason to care at all.
Consider me among the uncaring.
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