#11  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Not quite. This isn't a casual obstacle, so there's no "within 5 meters" allowed. If you're calling it a solid obstacle, then the mark would go directly behind the obstacle and on the line of play, no further relief given without penalty.
Crap you're right again, given the scenario he laid out.
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  #12  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If the disc is wedged in the stalks and not on the playing surface, it's suspended and you'd have to mark with a mini underneath. If the stalks prevent the mini from being placed on the ground, then you mark directly behind the stalks on the first available playing surface. That doesn't necessarily get you out from within the branches of the bushes, but it would give you a place on the playing surface to put a supporting point behind the lie.
With or without a penalty in that scenario?
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Consult20 View Post
With or without a penalty in that scenario?
If the marker is placed directly behind the stalks/trunk of the bush, no penalty.

I threw together a really crude drawing trying to illustrate the options here.



To play without penalty, you have to find a way to play from the lie represented by the blue line. To play from anywhere on the longer pinkish line, you'd take a penalty for optional relief. Those would be your choices.
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GirdleRoc View Post
Solid is probably a group decision but I wouldn't use the word solid. I am really bad at describing things and I don't have a picture. It was a cluster of 1 inch thick vines that was over and behind the disc. That was then surrounded by tons of bushes.
The intent of the solid obstacle rule is to avoid penalizing players when there is a legitimate obstacle to a legal stance. That sounds like this was the case (climbing onto the vines is not a legal stance because you're not in contact with a playing surface). Since you couldn't take a legal stance where it lies, you should mark the lie at the nearest point on the line of play where you can take a stance, and throw from there with no penalty.
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If the disc is wedged in the stalks and not on the playing surface, it's suspended and you'd have to mark with a mini underneath. If the stalks prevent the mini from being placed on the ground, then you mark directly behind the stalks on the first available playing surface. That doesn't necessarily get you out from within the branches of the bushes, but it would give you a place on the playing surface to put a supporting point behind the lie.
My disc was on the ground.
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:48 PM
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I wouldn't have ceded a stroke penalty so easily. If I couldn't fit my foot behind my lie, I'd submit the solid obstacle argument, and if they disagreed, ask to take a provisional.

I'm curious....Let's say a consensus can't be reached on a card in this (or similar) situation...at what point can someone call the clock? Does the phrase "playing area is clear" in 804.01-A-3, applies to the lie? It kind of sounds like they're just referring to people in your line...

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-r...excessive-time
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
I wouldn't have ceded a stroke penalty so easily. If I couldn't fit my foot behind my lie, I'd submit the solid obstacle argument, and if they disagreed, ask to take a provisional.

I'm curious....Let's say a consensus can't be reached on a card in this (or similar) situation...at what point can someone call the clock? Does the phrase "playing area is clear" in 804.01-A-3, applies to the lie? It kind of sounds like they're just referring to people in your line...

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-r...excessive-time
The player can't reasonably arrive at the lie until the group comes up with a consensus on where the lie actually is. So time doesn't start until a decision is made.

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  #18  
Old 04-02-2017, 08:50 PM
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Could you have performed a crane maneuver or a kipping push-up and done a quick throw while only one supporting point was on the ground? (Assuming you're outside of 10 meters, of course)
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Old 04-02-2017, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirdleRoc View Post
Theoretically I could have crawled up on to the wooded vines and thrown but would have disturbed and could have broken the vines. Would that violate the rules in some way?
Well, keep in mind that the rule doesn't require that you not disturb them, only that you disturb them as little as necessary:

A. A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a legal stance is taken, the player may not move an obstacle in any way in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

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  #20  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:48 AM
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Good point thanks!
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