Backhand 1357

[Brychanus]

You know, I think this is getting to the bottom of it. I have a hunch that you were hiding a bit of that opposite tilt in your last one, and it became obvious again once you did this one:



I can't quite tell, but I might see that front hip collapsing. I think part of it is that you are not getting fully stacked on the right axis going back and then coming off the rear leg

I'm not sure what it feels like to you, but when you plant it still isn't looking quite like it would if you were to hop or hockey slapshot off of it. Overall I think as you march/shift back diagonally, you need to let body come up higher from the ground a little more like DD. Then you will have a bit more drop landing to swing.

I also wonder if more door frame/swinging directly through your center would help again at this point. I think I still underestimate how much that can improve the swing.

Stay strong, disc warrior!

[NoseDownKing]

I think you're very right. It could be due to how I leave off the rear leg, but maybe it's more about how I use my front leg during the brace? It seems like I'm letting the hips collapse/open up early, rather than putting myself into a position that forces me to collapse the hips. I could be very wrong, but as you said the rear leg is definitely some part of the issue. Just not sure if that's the main culprit.

I actually tried fixing it right after seeing your post by trying to swing my front shoulder lower:

https://youtu.be/owB81VD5Nps

Clearly the front shoulder does swing lower, but the hip issue remains. So I believe if I fix my hip collapsing issue, that will also fix my shoulder tilt as the shoulder tilt is an effect from the hip collapsing.

[Brychanus]

Could still be issues on the front side, but something stood out immediately when you switched to that lower backswing. Here's a way to break down the swing from your transition off the rear & why I think you might want to attack your setup posture. I actually see a lot of what we needed to fix me with Door Frame and Hershyzer etc. in there. I might recommend forcing yourself to work with the navel-ish height like DFD since it'll give you a "fixed point" to work from even if you decide to change it later.

Right to left:
-I think you are still setting up with your hips pitched opposite of Will's, and your leading hip does look open to me - compare the knees too. IMO & experience there's just no way to "fake it" if the initial setup isn't closed in aggressive posture like Will's (I've probably tried them all lol)

-You start to stride off with the leading leg & pelvis open.

-Since your pelvis was open, at this point you have basically lost the leverage & balance from the rear leg. You start tipping forward rather than shifting and dropping in leverage so...

-Your head remains around the same height but your spine shows signs of tipping over. Notice will started more closed and continues to get more closed off being pulled taut by his backswing. He can do that because he's still supported into his rear leg but you've basically fallen & tipped off at this point.

-By this time you plant it's very clear that you have tipped (compare spines, then look in real time at how your upper body tips), risking some knee strain. As a result you were never pulled fully taut shifting & being turned back into the rear leg due to the problem on the rear side, so you can't get that huge separation like Will either. Will is basically finished the DFD here, about to drop fully off the frame and swing. You can see his body has already dropped a fair amount at this point.






I'm going to bring up the "preset booty" idea - how confident are you that you are able to get it? What happens if you do this actual Hershiser pitching drill against a wall? I think this & the lack of it in your seabas Hershyzer is probably worth focusing fire. If you can get it in the pitching drill, it might be easier to bring it back down into the seabas Hershyzer.





YMMV but I wanted to recap & empathize... this was not easy for me and I'm still working on some rear side stuff. For me I really benefitted from switching back to full pendulum swing a couple weeks ago too, but I think that was more successful after a lot of work on my lower half. I had to run sideways 100 yards with the booty preset, do a ton of Hershyzer, DFD, Swivel stairs etc. Attacking the "preset booty" in each of those moves helped me a lot once the fundamental issue was clear. What was really annoying was that like Shaolin backfist, I found it way easier to find it with hammers or backfists on my bag from the front leg or more laterally, but as soon as I added the diagonal shift like you I started tipping again because I wasn't used to that move at all. I then had to go to medicine balls and hammer swings/tosses in diagonal shift just to start getting it since my rear leg just wasn't getting the whole march/compression/drop thing leveraged from "inside" that rear leg to work.

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/p2NToVUDx24

Did some doorframing. Snow is most likely gone in about two weeks, finally lol. It's been one of the longest winters here in recorded history

[sidewinder22]

Rear foot might be slightly too close to target/north and hard to tell might be too east.

Your posture is more leaned back/folded over, than turned back/stacked inside. Note how my right heel is up and knees are closer together as my pelvis is turned further back and my left shoulder closer to target. Note how your head is more behind both your shoulders while my head is more centered between my shoulders. So if we put the barbell on our shoulders like SC talks about below I'd still be in good upright posture against that weight, while you would more likely collapse.

[Brychanus]

NDK- I went all the way back to your first post. I think you had some version of this problem all along and it's why you had a lot of trouble with Hershyzer or getting leverage and dropping off the frame like SW there. Actually, I think it was impressive how far you took your form without this part, but I really think it's worth going through the pain this time on this drill. Getting it right is going to feel wrong to you at first, maybe more than any other drill.

[sidewinder22]

Yep ^. It's so nice to be able to see the whole setup to the drill(s), often much easier to see the root of the issues.

NDK - you are leaning/tipping back to the door frame from the start, just like SC demos in the weightshift vid. I'm almost certain your rear foot is too eastward/offset to the door frame. Put your rear toes right inline to the door frame so your shoulder/arm is right over the toes or just outside toes as you are looking in first person point view with own eyes.

I'm starting already levering my hips/center away from the door frame while being turned back by the door frame, never leaning/tipping back to the door frame. Note how my lead foot/knee is behind my hip in the first frame while my center is levered forward of rear foot.

Note how your front foot is reaching/leading your stride while your center is still behind your rear foot. Note how everyone else has the lead knee kicked back/inward closer to the lead elbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=23s

[NoseDownKing]

Originally Posted by Brychanus

NDK- I went all the way back to your first post. I think you had some version of this problem all along and it's why you had a lot of trouble with Hershyzer or getting leverage and dropping off the frame like SW there. Actually, I think it was impressive how far you took your form without this part, but I really think it's worth going through the pain this time on this drill. Getting it right is going to feel wrong to you at first, maybe more than any other drill.

Yeah I also believe that the fundamental issue in my form has always been the same. That's probably why I've never suddenly thrown like 80 feet further after a form fix. I've only fixed smaller details, that don't gain me a lot of distance or efficiency. The little details would probably mostly fix themselves if I learn to shift correctly

[NoseDownKing]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Yep ^. It's so nice to be able to see the whole setup to the drill(s), often much easier to see the root of the issues.

NDK - you are leaning/tipping back to the door frame from the start, just like SC demos in the weightshift vid. I'm almost certain your rear foot is too eastward/offset to the door frame. Put your rear toes right inline to the door frame so your shoulder/arm is right over the toes or just outside toes as you are looking in first person point view with own eyes.

I'm starting already levering my hips/center away from the door frame while being turned back by the door frame, never leaning/tipping back to the door frame. Note how my lead foot/knee is behind my hip in the first frame while my center is levered forward of rear foot.

Note how your front foot is reaching/leading your stride while your center is still behind your rear foot. Note how everyone else has the lead knee kicked back/inward closer to the lead elbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=23s

Seems like I mostly just have to focus on being pulled rather than pulling the doorframe

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/PE5wIKI66Eo

More door framing... I think this looks better?