Ball Golf Course Tolerance

[VictorB]

While open ball golf courses are a little boring to watch, I look at the tour like a Macro-level tournament.

You want to test all aspects of the top players game over the course of the tour. Think about worlds at Smuggler's last year. Nice balance of open and wooded. So while it's not 100% my preference, I do understand the need to have all different style of courses over the entire NT/DGPT.

[Shamis]

I do find open courses with lots of roped OB very fun to play, but I agree they aren't as good to watch. However, they are MUCH easier to film, which might be contributing to the trend.

[JC17393]

Originally Posted by Shamis

I do find open courses with lots of roped OB very fun to play, but I agree they aren't as good to watch. However, they are MUCH easier to film, which might be contributing to the trend.

This is a very good point. I've never been philosophically opposed to lots of roped OB (my own course has a fair share of it), but I certainly gained much more respect and appreciation for Winthrop Gold after having played it versus before I ever set foot on the grounds.

One thing about it that I still don't think gets the appreciation it deserves is that while it has many holes where there are few obstructions for the disc in flight, it challenges players to take care and notice of how and where the disc lands. I don't just mean whether it lands inside the ropes or not, but whether it lands flat or not. Whether the throw fades into the slope of the hill or with the slope of the hill. Or whether it is a slower speed disc that will grab when it lands rather than skip or catch edge and roll. It's something that few courses I've ever played or seen played seem to consider, but the designers at USDGC absolutely do. And it's something subtle enough that casual observers or even seasoned players may not pick up on it when watching, even in-person.

[NoFoxDG]

Originally Posted by VictorB

While open ball golf courses are a little boring to watch, I look at the tour like a Macro-level tournament.

You want to test all aspects of the top players game over the course of the tour.

I have to second this sentiment. I'm admittedly a VERY new fan of the sport, I've been watching for about 2-3 months, and playing all of 3-4 weeks, but during that time I have been consuming DG coverage voraciously, and watched the entirety of the GBO live.

I don't mind the BG courses that much, though I admittedly enjoy seeing the more technical courses. The way I see it, the tour tests each player on all levels, and allows us to truly separate the well-rounded pros from the one-trick ponies. A well balanced course on each stop would be ideal, but is unrealistic.

I think it all has its place, and you're not a terrible or bad person for not watching the courses/holes you don't enjoy, but the choice is nice. I'd love to see more live coverage of all types of courses, as I feel that was what drew in the viewership: it was there.

There's a market for this kind of live coverage, same as people enjoy the quicker "Jomez Style" post coverage. The more options we have for consuming DG media, the easier it is to grow the sport, imo.

[mizunodave]

Originally Posted by JC17393

One thing about it that I still don't think gets the appreciation it deserves is that while it has many holes where there are few obstructions for the disc in flight, it challenges players to take care and notice of how and where the disc lands.

This made me realize that while there may not be any visible trees, the players have to throw just as tight of a line as if there were in order to land their disc at the right spot with the right angle. It's almost like there are a bunch of invisible trees and they're hitting those gaps.

1. Hit an early tree and drop in the rough. 2. Pitch out. 3. Throw upshot to the basket.

2. Skip out of bounds. 2. OB stroke. 3. Throw upshot to the basket.

It doesn't translate well on video without the trees to provide context but for the thrower it's more similar than I realized.

[Darkgreen]

I think open courses with roped OB makes for garbage disc golf for many reasons. However leaving that aside, even if you think it makes for good disc golf and if you think that is the reason why the organizers use golf courses then it is time to stop fooling yourself. The reason golf courses are used for larger disc golf events is because golf courses have the facilities to accommodate those events. Parking, potable running water, bathrooms, indoor meeting area and tourney central, data coverage, wifi, food. It isn’t about the quality level of the course.
Just want to make it clear that just because a high level event is held at a certain place doesn’t anoint that course unto greatness.

[giles]

I'm apparently in the minority here. I'm completely fine with ball golf courses for casual or tournament play. I've played several that were really great. I'll watch the live & post coverage regardless of the course, I like watching the elite play and appreciate the varied challenges that different courses provide. I'm ok with rope OB. It isn't aesthetically the best but I like it and the ability for it to be tweaked from one year to the next. I like sand traps/bunkers for disc golf. I don't care for the disc baskets being placed right behind a golf green as damage to a golf green would jeopardize the courses future as a disc golf course. I think we need a new term for "OB golf green".
All that said, I really wish Winthrop would just go ahead and make hole 17 a legitimate island. A couple hours with a excavator would do wonders for that hole.

[TimSyl]

Originally Posted by Shamis

I do find open courses with lots of roped OB very fun to play, but I agree they aren't as good to watch. However, they are MUCH easier to film, which might be contributing to the trend.

Incorrect. At least I know I've heard Ian from CCDG say open golf courses are more difficult to shoot. I believe Jonathan Gomez has said the same thing.

[JC17393]

Originally Posted by TimSyl

Incorrect. At least I know I've heard Ian from CCDG say open golf courses are more difficult to shoot. I believe Jonathan Gomez has said the same thing.

For their style of filming, open courses are tougher to film. Specifically from the perspective of the catch cam. On a wooded fairway, the catch cam operator has to be fairly confident that all the shots are going to come on a particular line so he can set up in the best spot to catch those shots. In an open fairway, there's a whole variety of lines the players can take...hyzer, anhyzer, roller, forehand, backhand, etc. And the camera not only has to figure out which line the player is taking but also where to stand to best capture it. And if you have four different players throwing four different types of shots, the best place to stand won't be the same for all four.

The idea that open courses are better for filming I think is based in two antiquated notions. The first is from how ball golf tournaments are filmed and the expectation that disc golf should be filmed similarly. That is, "tower cameras" that don't really move around but rely on zoom and focus to cover a given hole. Can't really do that effectively if there are trees everywhere. The second is simply the technology of cameras. 15-20 years ago, all that was available was standard definition video tape. It made it harder to see and follow the discs in flight. So the less that could get in the way or obscure the view of the disc, the better.

Now with 1080p/4K cameras and what can be called a more guerrila filming style (cameras on the ground moving around for different angles and views), all those old concerns are out-of-date.

Wide open courses are still better from a gallery perspective simply because there's more room for a gallery to watch without potentially being in the way, but on the video side, there's no real benefit. At least until we get ESPN money to film and all those hard-wired cameras for the live TV broadcast need to be more stationary "tower" style.

[Horsman]

Since disc golf on ball golf courses isnt really a good representation of what disc golf is, should they be used in the world championships? What I mean is that most disc golf courses are not on ball golf courses. So is it really an accurate test of who the best disc golfer is?