#51  
Old 10-02-2013, 11:16 PM
Crazy Runner Guy Crazy Runner Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qikly View Post
Tangentially, CRG, have you ever considered/tried putting with something less OS than the Rhyno? I love the feel of my VPs, but I sometimes wonder if I should try a less OS putter out. On days where I'm putting less confidently and not getting enough snap, they sure do fade out quickly.
Considered yes, tried not really. If I did, I would likely go with a BB Aviar mold, perhaps KC. I've felt up other putters and not liked the feel: practically all of Discraft's line, I can't stand the feel of MVP plastic, Wizards are too deep (1.8 cm height).

I've said this elsewhere, but I love putting with Rhynos because I am a pitch putter (Putting styles illustrated by BroD) and Rhynos are like pitching horseshoes to me. They have no glide, go only as far as you want them to go, and don't go very far if you miss.
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  #52  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:09 AM
Crazy Runner Guy Crazy Runner Guy is offline
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An update. Bags are the same as the above, but I've put in several rounds at my new local 9 hole course.

The DX Firebird is more seasoned than I thought it was. Hole 8 of my local course is stated at 400' feet, but it plays like 275-300 because it's straight and the teebox is elevated on a mound 20+ feet high. I can park the hole with a my seasoned DX Roc. I threw the Firebird yesterday off the mound off to level with teepad and off to the right into a moderate breeze, no more than about 10 MPH and it all-but failed to fade out, instead landing just left of the line I put it on. Very odd throw. I'm thinking it needs to be complimented with a Champ/Star Firebird in max weight.

I'm pleasantly surprised with the Pro Leo. It's now seasoned perfectly, about an 8/10 my guess. I've been throwing it on a gentle hyzer and it flips flat, will turn a little, and then fade out softly. Thrown flat, it turns right and then fades back again. I can put it out to about 285/300 on a dead-straight or "S" curve line. In sum, it's much like by seasoned DX Teebird but far more controllable for right-turning shots. It won't turn-and-burn like an overcooked TB will. That gentle right-turning short has been something that has been missing in my bag, and I'm glad to have it back. It's currently the second or third longest disc in my main bag, behind the DX Teebird (clearly first) and the Firebird (in appropriate situations). It's also turning into a good roller. I'm resolved to keeping the Leo in the bag and cycling them in Pro plastic - one for rolling, one for throwing.

The Valkyrie, while feeling almost identical plastic-wise to the Leo, is still flying straight with a good amount of fade (less than the Eagle-X, more like a fresh DX Teebird would). It's not broken in enough yet for me to get turn in it, but it's still a nice disc. It's shorter than my Teebird and Leo because of its fade.

The 169 DX Eagle is still surprisingly stiff and overstable. I've probably thrown it more than the Leo, but it's nowhere near the level of wear. I'm beginning to think whether it has a place in the bag, especially if I were to put it head-to-head with a Star of Champ Teebird. I'm using the Eagle for fairway shots where I need something to handle wind, skip, or otherwise fade - something my seasoned Teebird won't do - but it's clearly the shortest fairway driver in my bag because of its overstability and fade.

On Rocs and Comets, my seasoned DX Roc, removed from the bag above but added back in after my long time away from the game, overlaps with each of the Comets in my bag. As far as flight goes, the Roc flies straight when thrown with hyzer. The Comets go hold their release angle and are great for dead-straight shots. I'm putting each of them out to about 275', and I prefer throwing the X over the Z because of the feel of the plastic. It's much like the Pro plastic of the Leo and Valk, but slightly softer. In sum, I'm not sure what to do about this overlap situation. I have thought about cycling ESP Comets in the stable/understable mid roles, and I guess I'm looking for a similar setup between my fairways - moderately overstable, stable, and understable - in my mids. I don't have that right now, and I'm curious as to how to get there. I'd like to keep mids to two molds, which gets us to the next and final disc. Perhaps a KC Pro/Star Rancho paired with cycled Comets? The other option is to cycle Rocs only.

The Hornet is, as mentioned above, a mini Eagle-X but with more fade. Just like the Eagle-X, I'm not sure whether it has a place in the bag. I think I'd rather have something moderately overstable to handle mid shots where a Z Comet/DX Roc won't handle (think moderate headwinds) but the Hornet is too much.

Finally, my new residence has a short field behind it that is maybe 250' long - perfect for tossing putters in. I've been working on throwing from a stand still, weight shift, and pivoting properly. Right now, I can put my bevy of putters out to about 200/225 from the stand-still, with my Yeti/JK being the longest, then the Pure on a good toss (it's neutral stability and sharp edges of the Opto plastic makes releases difficult), then the Rhynos. With an improved form, I'm eager to consistently push putters out to 250'+, mids to 300', and drivers consistently to 300-325'+.
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  #53  
Old 11-06-2013, 12:01 PM
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whitefedora whitefedora is offline
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Replace the hornet with a flat ti wasp and don't look back.
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  #54  
Old 11-08-2013, 06:46 PM
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Bardu Bardu is offline
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DX Firebird, what kind of distance are you getting out of it? I can't get my Champ (167) any further than my putters even if I really give it some power. Mine is even domey and it will not come close to turning even in 30-40 mph wind, despite its weight.

When I threw DX Eagles, they were beating into something resembling (I'm guessing) your Pro Leo within about two weeks of use. Basically they would turn throughout much of the flight with just enough to fade to always come back a little at the end.
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  #55  
Old 11-09-2013, 09:03 PM
Crazy Runner Guy Crazy Runner Guy is offline
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I can throw the Firebird 275-300 straight out and that's a throw off to the right and the fade onto the line. It's got a nice dome to it, but I haven't seen a 12x in person in a while to compare it to. The more I watch ITB videos, the more I see that pros carry multiple Firebirds/Predators and I'm curious how that is going to play out as the DX wears. I'd like to compliment it with a couple Champ FB's - one FAF and one domey - if I start throwing the FB more or drop the Eagle.

As for the Eagle, I don't doubt that it will break in, but it's just very, very stiff for a DX disc. It's nothing like the Leopard, more like a very overstable Teebird - lots of HSS, LSS, and glide and it fits the stability slot between the Teebird and Firebird nicely.
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  #56  
Old 11-20-2013, 09:43 PM
Crazy Runner Guy Crazy Runner Guy is offline
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This weekend I threw one of those rounds that just makes you question everything. My release point was off (releasing early) and release angle was wonky with lots of nose up. It was windy, but I don't think that necessarily affected things. So it's back to basics, working from the ground up and from the hit backwards. Beato drills (although I think he pulls from the left pec...), throwing from a stand still, hammer pound.

Drivers: 275/300
175 DX Firebird 7/10: straight with fade, nicely seasoned.
170 DX Teebird 6/10: dead straight, will float right with less hyzer. Needs a 170 Star to complement.
167 Pro Leo 8/10: perfectly seasoned, slight hyzer flip/flat/turn.

Mids: 250/275
175 DX Roc 6/10: Straight. Hyzer flip/flat.
175 Z Comet 9/10: Straight. Overlaps with Roc. Wind Comet.
170 X Comet 8/10: Straight. Main Comet.

Putters: 200/225
174 [R-]Pro Rhynos (x2) 8/10: Each is getting nice and gritty and worn in. Stiff and grippy.

On the discs as I work through this re-building phase.

The Eagle is out for now in the interest in discing down a little. It's too overstable at the moment and the Firebird can fill the overstable driver role as necessary.

For now, the Teebird/Leo combo will stay the main set up, barring me picking up a speed six control driver (DX Gazelle; ESP/X Cyclone; etc.). The two cover different lines but overlap slightly in that I can throw each dead-straight on a similar line and can make each finish left with enough hyzer, but finishing right is where the two differ. The Teebird will float right and keep going until it fades gently, whereas the Leo will come back slightly. Im beginning to see why the Cheetah is so highly recommended for this control driver slot if it has the same turn as a Leo but more but not too much fade. Why doesnt Innova make it in anything other than DX? I will likely add a Star Teebird to have that moderately overstable fairway spot covered.

For mids, the Hornet is out. It's far too overstable for my use, and I have been unable to throw it without OAT - even when I am throwing Comets smoothly. The combination of glide and overstability is also a very weird mix. Its like the glide of the disc holds back its HSS because the wind has too much space underneath and it bounces the disc around. In calm conditions, the glide is great to keep it airborne and the fade is nice and healthy for a hard left finish. But once the wind picks up, I dont trust it and thats a problem.

I see some overlap in the Roc and Z Comet, and less so between those two discs and the X Comet. I like having a moderately overstable mid especially because the Rhynos are so glideless but the Hornet was just too much. I think the next step here is a KC/Star Roc paired with DX Roc and Z Comet, with the X Comet staying in the bag for those nice right turns. I just cant get it in my mind to kick the Comets or the Roc out, but the overlap is there and it frustrates me. Both are excellent discs, if not the best disc their respective manufacturers make.

The Pure is something of an enigma. I find myself throwing the stiff Rhynos and my Aviars (JK and Yeti) better in practice throws and on the course, and it is like the Pure is coming out of my hand slower, with less snap and with less air speed. Maybe its the Opto plastic that makes it appear like that? I know, archer not the arrow. It does pair well with the Rhynos in that it is dead-nuts straight and will float right if necessary. But the distance difference I expected isnt there, and I think that Comets do what the Pure will do on longer lines, with better control and will power down better. Ill continue to use it in practice but like the Eagle and Hornet, I dont necessarily trust it when I pick it out of the bag. Im thinking getting putting the Yeti back in (170g) for putter drives and approaches, or getting a max weight KC Pro might be the next best option (or even a DX PnA?) to handle putter drives.

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  #57  
Old 11-20-2013, 10:44 PM
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Streets Streets is offline
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^Like the super stripped down bag. I'm going through the same thing right now after a less than stellar tourney performance this past weekend. Down to a beat DX Aviar, beat DX Roc, Pro Leo, and Star TB to figure things out. Good luck man!
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  #58  
Old 11-20-2013, 11:30 PM
Uncle Matt Uncle Matt is offline
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I'm doing the same thing man.

After finally realizing that High Speed Drivers are not for me,I stripped my bag way down too.

I like this concept.
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  #59  
Old 08-13-2017, 07:13 AM
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Meillo Meillo is offline
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Normally, I'd be sorry to revive such an old thread, but this one is so great, that it should be brought up on top from time to time.

Take the time to follow the evolution of CRG's bag! He writes a lot about his reasoning, and besides, his bag is a great example for a Garu bag in reality. :-)
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