#481  
Old 10-23-2020, 10:22 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is online now
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Paul doesn't twitch until he is in strong brace with his front hip rising. The only way the butt can turn like that is if you are braced on the front side resisting going targetward pushing away from the target.
Then why does the video show his hip turning into brace-


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  #482  
Old 10-23-2020, 10:29 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is online now
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Here's something on want you to try Sidewinder- practice a swing where you have zero turn before your brace. Literally no rotation whatsoever until all your weight has shifted and that front leg is coming up signifying a good strong brace. Try thst for me. I will bet everything that you cant engage your hips properly. Practice what you preach, go and do it and prove me wrong.
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  #483  
Old 10-23-2020, 11:15 AM
Happablap Happablap is offline
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I just want to say thank you to all who have participated in this thread. It has been immensely enjoyable. And I am only halfway through.

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  #484  
Old 10-23-2020, 11:22 AM
bsammons bsammons is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I will be honest in that I don't know exactly the names of every muscle in the body and how they work but when I practice throwing distance I feel a lot in my gluteus and hip muscles. I also feel it in my quads, lower back and lats and deltoid on the throwing side. There's really a lot of muscles involved but those are the ones I feel the most when I throw. My legs are usually the tiredest after throwing. I have noticed that I have gotten larger more defined muscles around my butt, upper legs and hips since I started playing. I don't really feel anything in my arm, I just feel like it's being pulled through.

It matters to know about when hip rotation begins because a lot of new players all arm their disc and have a hard time getting the hips involved. If you get the hips involved at the right time you can feel how the body can pull the disc rather than wonder if your hips do anything. I started pkaying right and threw all arm and had a hard time getting the hips to engage. Then I threw left and instantly felt the difference.

The axis of rotation is around the spine area.
To be more specific, I meant biomechanically. Not necessarily what muscles fire, but what muscles are doing and in what direction.
2. I don’t know how many times I can say this but. Hips don’t just “get involved”. Rotation doesn’t drive the force.

If rotation was the key, then we shouldn’t plant 90ish degrees from the target because that inhibits rotation through the throw.

Look at the free body diagram I posted a while ago. The throw is like pulling a post out of the ground, just dynamic. You don’t spin your hips into pulling a post out of the ground. You leverage your trail side, using it as a weight to pull the disc, with equal and opposite tension, towards your target.
3. If rotation was around the spine, then how does the brace work? Because rotation around the spine would mean the brace would be directly under the spine-if you look at an overhead shot of the throw, you’ll see the rotation is around the brace


I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Rotation is not the goal. Rotation is a byproduct of using your trail side as leverage, like pulling a post out of the ground, to pull the disc, mainly with your lats, towards the target.

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  #485  
Old 10-23-2020, 12:06 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Then why does the video show his hip turning into brace-


https://youtu.be/ZvvF6eW-by8?t=130
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  #486  
Old 10-23-2020, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsammons View Post
To be more specific, I meant biomechanically. Not necessarily what muscles fire, but what muscles are doing and in what direction.
2. I don’t know how many times I can say this but. Hips don’t just “get involved”. Rotation doesn’t drive the force.

If rotation was the key, then we shouldn’t plant 90ish degrees from the target because that inhibits rotation through the throw.

Look at the free body diagram I posted a while ago. The throw is like pulling a post out of the ground, just dynamic. You don’t spin your hips into pulling a post out of the ground. You leverage your trail side, using it as a weight to pull the disc, with equal and opposite tension, towards your target.
3. If rotation was around the spine, then how does the brace work? Because rotation around the spine would mean the brace would be directly under the spine-if you look at an overhead shot of the throw, you’ll see the rotation is around the brace


I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Rotation is not the goal. Rotation is a byproduct of using your trail side as leverage, like pulling a post out of the ground, to pull the disc, mainly with your lats, towards the target.
Rotation is around the spine. Watch where his hips and shoulders rotate. It's around the spine area, not the brace leg. The brace helps to drive or power the rotation amd, keep you from falling over.

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Old 10-23-2020, 12:49 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Rotation is around the spine. Watch where his hips and shoulders rotate. It's around the spine area, not the brace leg. The brace helps to drive or power the rotation amd, keep you from falling over.

1) You are focusing on a component. Think of the entire body as a system.

2) The bird's eye view of the GIF might be good for you since it takes away that rear knee movement that seems to be confusing you. Watch the sequence: shift, then plant/brace, then front leg compression/extension providing power.
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  #488  
Old 10-23-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Rotation is around the spine. Watch where his hips and shoulders rotate. It's around the spine area, not the brace leg. The brace helps to drive or power the rotation amd, keep you from falling over.

Again, with a pedantic snipe at a concept that no one is arguing. Yes, the torso is going to rotate with the spine, what alternative is there with a human body?

The point is that the spine is not the axis of the disc golf swing, and this is clearly the case in your gif.
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:08 PM
bsammons bsammons is offline
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The gif you posted clearly shows the right hip and glute stay in place. I reiterate-the axis of rotation is not the spine. It’s the brace.

Rodeo I’m going to present you with a grim reality that appears not to have set in. Nobody’s “staying with you”. Nobody’s listening to you and changing their form because of something you say. Nobody thinks you’re right but yourself.

You continually insist reality is something different than it actually is, and point out things you believe are logical fallacies and just state that they aren’t true with no concrete evidence.

You sometimes even bring evidence forth that doesn’t prove your point but try and utilize it as proof. You’re in a state of denial about the actual physics of the throw.

It’s taken me years to get to the level of understanding I’m at now. I’m trying to save you from the same fate, but you insist on not letting me. If you want to ignore my advice as well as everyone else’s on this forum you have the freedom to do so. But you aren’t changing anyone’s mind, and if you ignore everyone here’s advice, then you’re going to continue to live in your own little world, fueled by elective ignorance and your pride.

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Last edited by bsammons; 10-23-2020 at 01:10 PM.
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  #490  
Old 10-23-2020, 01:11 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Here's another explanation of why rotating from the back leg is suboptimal. Note that he demonstrates you can still swing that way and get decent results, but shows you can get better results the other way (also supported by biomechanical research.) This addresses your most common objection of "then why can I throw 350' doing it this way?"

Initiating rotation with the rear is like the pushing forward he describes.

The drill at 5:44 is a continuation of the drill I described earlier. Note the sequence: shift to the front leg, then power through.

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