#501  
Old 10-23-2020, 02:20 PM
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Watch the equal and opposite moves of the left and right side of the body. They both end up where the other starts out. If we draw a line from top to bottom around that axis it goes exactly down the spine.

What do you think a brace is, exactly? If rotation is the engine of power, why wouldn't you just throw flat footed and rotate as fast as possible? Because it feels weak when you try it? Ya, I know. That is why you start moving laterally, brace the momentum, then swing.

Just take a second and think about the things you are saying a bit man.
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  #502  
Old 10-23-2020, 03:19 PM
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Here's something on want you to try Sidewinder- practice a swing where you have zero turn before your brace. Literally no rotation whatsoever until all your weight has shifted and that front leg is coming up signifying a good strong brace. Try thst for me. I will bet everything that you cant engage your hips properly. Practice what you preach, go and do it and prove me wrong.

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  #503  
Old 10-23-2020, 03:24 PM
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Watch the equal and opposite moves of the left and right side of the body. They both end up where the other starts out. If we draw a line from top to bottom around that axis it goes exactly down the spine.


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  #504  
Old 10-23-2020, 03:24 PM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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Here's an example of why it's easy to get confused or see the other end of the elephant.

Here's Paige demonstrating the importance of the linear movement (and the drive off the back leg, but I digress):



And now here's Drew, getting power by snapping his hips, especially up to about 2:15:

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Old 10-23-2020, 03:25 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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I do look at it as a whole system. I realize that all of the acceleration and culmination of power happens on the front brace leg. My point is that in order to get to all of that you have to initiate certain motions and put yourself in the correct sequence so that it comes to pass. For example- you don't get the powerful torso rotation you see in the birds eye view that happens on the brace leg without the initiation of hip rotation coming into brace yet before the brace actually happens.. You don't get powerful torso rotation without lag or separation between hips and shoulders.
1) If the movement happens from the ground up, shouldn't the axis have a link to the ground? If we are shifting weight forward onto a brace leg, isn't the axis from the ground up? Wouldn't that mean the spine (head to hips) is only a component of the axis, and that hips to ground is the rest of the axis? Is the axis not a "net axis" connecting the ground to the head?

2) Lag/separation seems to be covered in the door frame drills. Door frame drill part 3 addresses the difference between the separation created by striding and settling vs. spinning (around 1:55 in the video)

3) More on the topic of sequencing and separation, what do you make of these K-Vest graphs that show the hip-shoulder separation (X-factor) happens after heel strike? Wouldn't that mean the hips opening up to create hip-shoulder separation happens after the front foot heel is down?

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Old 10-23-2020, 03:48 PM
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Axis of rotation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9pi56fi2BA#t=8m50s
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  #507  
Old 10-23-2020, 04:14 PM
RocHucker RocHucker is offline
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Can you please link the video that you captured these images from? I'd love to step through it frame by frame
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Old 10-23-2020, 04:36 PM
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Can you please link the video that you captured these images from? I'd love to step through it frame by frame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES1p9jtWsW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wX801JaoUY#t=3m15s



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Old 10-23-2020, 06:02 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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No, actually throw a disc and throw it over 400 feet.
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Old 10-23-2020, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
1) If the movement happens from the ground up, shouldn't the axis have a link to the ground? If we are shifting weight forward onto a brace leg, isn't the axis from the ground up? Wouldn't that mean the spine (head to hips) is only a component of the axis, and that hips to ground is the rest of the axis? Is the axis not a "net axis" connecting the ground to the head?

2) Lag/separation seems to be covered in the door frame drills. Door frame drill part 3 addresses the difference between the separation created by striding and settling vs. spinning (around 1:55 in the video)

3) More on the topic of sequencing and separation, what do you make of these K-Vest graphs that show the hip-shoulder separation (X-factor) happens after heel strike? Wouldn't that mean the hips opening up to create hip-shoulder separation happens after the front foot heel is down?

The rotation of the hips ,torso, and shoulders happen around the spine. Take for example the case of a spike hyzer. The player is bent way over and slanted, kind of away from his plant foot if you were looking down the spine of his back. His rotation doesnt follow a line from inbetween his shoulders going straight into his plant foot. This actually shows two planes of rotation- 1. The rotation of the hips, torso and shoulders around the spine. 2. The rotation of the body connected to the leg, which momentum causes a second pivot around the pivot point of the foot.
Now, I can certainly pivot just around the foot like an ice skater but that's not what's happening in a disc golf throw. The upper body pivots around the spine and the whole body, because of momentum, pivots on a second plane around the foot.

The problem with the door frame drill is that the motions he walks through doesn't mimic the actual disc golf throw. He shows himself leaning his weight onto his front side with his butt facing the target at that point and pulling with his arm. But that isn't what happens in a disc golf throw. In a disc golf throw the arm doesn't pull against the brace of the foot. Well, I guess it can, if you are strong arming (once again another way of showing if one is using arms or hips) the disc. In a disc golf throw, done properly, the rotation of the hips and torso whip the arm through into release. That hip and torso pull against the brace but its a completely different feeling.

The K vest graph doesn't capture the brace moment does it? How would they know? Are they using a pressure gauge under his foot to signify brace moment? As the weight transitions from rear to front there's a significant period where the foot makes first contact to when the brace actually takes place. You feel this even more as a lag in the disc golf throw. Even though there is first contact with the front leg, its not doing much of anything until the heel comes down and the weight, after that, truly shifts into brace. It's dynamic in that it takes some time until the brace actually occurs from when first contact is actually made. By the time of actual brace, the hips have already made a substantial rotation. It's at that moment that one should have maximum hip to shoulder separation.
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