Two opposite approaches to Nose Down

[TeeYeti]

As has been mentioned elsewhere, nose-down is the attitude of the disc at the apex of it's flight. And it's fractions of degrees of angle.

[jenb]

I’ve been pouring the tea for many years and I tried the supination technique the last few rounds and I think I’m sold on it. Pouring the tea makes my wrist bind up and makes it difficult to time the pinch down at the hit. In fact, the urge is for the grip to pop open. Not so with supination. I’m getting more distance and consistent release with improved accuracy. I’m wondering if I’m just a special case or maybe others have a similar experience? We hear about athletes with floppy wrists and I wonder if their wrists don’t bind up like mine does when pouring the tea?

[dmoore1998]

Originally Posted by Siriusbomb

People don't seem to realize this - trying to improve form and trying to compete CANNOT occur simultaneously!

If you could, overnight, add 50' to your drives - you would be a far worse disc golfer the next day. None of your frisbees would fly the same and you would have an impossible time shaping any of your shots. It would take a week of practice to re-learn your bag and dial in your discs.

Form changes are for the offseason. Mid-season is all about scoring the best you can with the swing you have that day.

I disagree...particularly in that "none of your frisbees would fly the same". First off, adding 50' to your max drives doesn't change how most other shots are thrown. So it would change only max drives. Secondly, for anyone who plays in the wind it should be a rather easy tune-up as wind has a much bigger impact on disc flight than 50 extra feet on a max drive would.

I don't think you can just scrap all form and totally reinvent your throwing motion and still compete...that's tough. Almost everyone I know is trying to "improve their form" though. I'm constantly working on getting the disc into the power pocket better, my timing, the way my x-step hits, etc...and even on those rare times when it hits "just right" and I throw an extra 50 feet...the only thing that happens is I throw an extra 50 feet on a throw I was pretty much already trying to throw as far as I could.

If you're trying to really shape a tight shot...you're probably not throwing a full maximum power drive anyways...which again means the flight isn't likely changing by 50 feet (somewhere between 0 and 50) and the impact on the flight is going to be minimal.

[azplaya25]

I think some people over exaggerate the “pouring the coffee” feel and really push their wrist down, which tightens everything up in my experience. Also ended up with some tendinitis from really pushing the wrist down.

I really like the little move Barsby does in this video. Holds his arm to keep the shoulder externally rotated then allows the wrist to pronate into the coffee pour position. About 2:45 in the vid::

https://youtu.be/E8l6g9LlRdM

[acrosley]

You can see Simon and Ricky “carry the briefcase” as Overthrow called it vs pouring the Coffee in a lot of their throws here https://youtu.be/adznE_7UUEA

[deyo7]

Originally Posted by timothy42b

I hope these haven't been discussed, apologies if so.





Overthrow says you can swivel, (forearm rotation vs supination), Stokely says not to..

Hey mate, I think you just have it confused. Stokely says don't swivel, which by that he meant don't PRONATE the forearm. Overthrow mentioned supination as viable option. They're both getting to same point at release.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by BillFleming

After watching LOTS of 'how to' videos and reading LOTS of 'how to' advice here and elsewhere; I've come to one conclusion.

Advice isn't for everyone.... if it works for you great, if not, there's probably something else that will.

Not to pick on him....but Scott Stokely has a forehand video where he says there are three ways to do the backswing and one is wrong. He says you should never bring the disc straight back. Well, watch Eagle (at least his before injury throws) and Adam Hammes. Both of them are pretty much straight back. I find I'm more accurate with a straight back pull on forehands. But I know others who can't throw a forehand that way - they do the pendulum or windmill.

People who give advice are usually telling you what works for them and hoping it works for you. Overthrow's swivel may work for some and Stokely's advice may work for others. Gotta go throw and try different things to figure out what works for you. This sport would be so much easier if there really, truly was only one way to do things. (for example...Putting: push, spin, spush, turbo...straddle, stagger, jump......I just want my putter to go in the basket!).

This is why pro players need to stop trying to teach in a lot of cases.
Clinics are cool, but most pro players really have no idea "how" they do things, they just explain what they do and what they think is the best solution. Stokley is one of these people. He is intelligent, he does know a lot, but he is also a "my way is the only way" person as well.

This causes problems for anyone who coaches, because they are following their favorite pro blah blah and they say to do it X way, when ... that's not possible with your body build and skill level.

It's important to tailor the swing dynamics to the persons overall ability.
And sometimes these change over time as well.

Originally Posted by Dingus

+1 million

All of these videos show people holding their arms out to the release point and showing how the "nose" of the disc is pointing. Problem is that with good form, the disc will have pivoted up to 90 degrees out of your hand by that point. Honestly with good disc pivot it is nearly impossible to throw nose up, so if you want to fix your issues you need to get that pivot worked out first. That advice probably holds for the vast majority of swing problems.

Halfway decent form is far more important that nose angle for sure.
As long as you understand your distance will suffer a bit. So many people throw with terrible nose angle and do the dreaded rip and bounce technique. I have no idea how they play good golf, but it works.
But clean form fixes tons of nose issues, but it's still up to us to drive it that last few degree's.

Originally Posted by seedlings

I can throw nose down much more often on hyzer OR anhyzer than on a flat release. I have been throwing a LOT of putters the last few months and am afraid the slight nose-up putter has permanently infected my throw for other discs. Now when I’m trying a flat release, and concentrating on keeping the nose down, the disc literally goes 150’ and into the ground - nose and trajectory are down.

Constant high winds have not been helpful for improving form.

It's because you've been air bouncing the disc and suddenly get the nose down.

Originally Posted by jenb

So wait. People are saying that flat = nose down? Because I think nose down is actually angled down towards the ground while the trajectory of the driver is more parallel to the ground. The tendency is for the driver to angle gradually upwards throughout its travel, and when it goes nose up it slows down and fades out. Thus, throwing it flat allows it to go nose up earlier than throwing it angled down, and costs you distance, resulting in earlier fade. Starting the driver out nose up is even worse. Putters and mids have different flight characteristics and can benefit from nose up.

Originally Posted by TeeYeti

As has been mentioned elsewhere, nose-down is the attitude of the disc at the apex of it's flight. And it's fractions of degrees of angle.

I don't think the disc is "popping a wheelie" in its flight. I think what you're seeing is a nose up throw manifesting its characteristics while thinking that you're throwing nose down.

Apex of the flight is where the nose angle has the largest change in the flight path. A nose up disc not only stalls, but depending on the stability, can come backwards.

The efficiency of flight also comes form the nose angle as well, this is why pro's are ripping more overstable discs than us plebs throw and getting crazy straight flights or flex flights out of stuff we can barely throw straight.

Also also, rotation of the disc has a huge impact of stability over the total flight. So, if ... for instance you're noticing that the disc *is* popping a wheelie, it could be due to poor rotation keeping the disc stable in its flight, or off axis torque catching up towards the apex of the flight.

Good nose angle on apex = disc dive, which is what we want for distance.
And it sucks so much to feel like you just ripped a bomber and got this amazing disc line only to throw 380 feet cause it stalled on apex vs pushed on apex.