#11  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:11 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I don't know. I was thinking of what would be fair, not what the rules specify.

Assuming the Official is not the TD, can the TD specify the scope of the official's duties? Can he say, "Joe Blow is an Official for this, but not an Official for that?" If so, can the latter be, "...for the group he's playing with"?
I think the TD can absolutely specify the scope of an official's duties. And frankly, if we're talking about an event in which tournament officials are also playing, there should be limits to the scope of those officials' duties, and probably limits on how many officials exist at all.

I've assisted TDs and had assistant/co TDs for my own events. Whether I was the assistant or had assistants, the primary role for that person was to be the official adjudicator of rulings/disputes for the division in which the TD was playing. As an assistant, I wouldn't want to overstep the TD and make calls in any other capacity than as a regular player unless asked specifically by him/her. As a TD, I don't want my assistants or designated officials making rulings without involving me unless it involves my division.
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2019, 05:42 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is online now
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Related question. Can or should (non-playing) Tournament Officials be active as well as passive?

IE should their role be just to resolve disputes/provide clarification, as and when needed/requested by a card?

Or can they be more active, more like referees in team sports, and actively observe cards and call faults?

An example of this came up on Facebook recently, a non-playing tournament official was apparently stationed on a particular hole, and they called an excessive time penalty on a player for taking too long on a couple of throws.



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  #13  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:08 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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I think if that non-playing official is stationed where his calls will affect everyone equally, he can be active. If he's following certain groups or just wandering around randomly (which I've done), he should be more restrained.

I once watched an official who was also the official starter in a staggered-start event, call multiple foot-faults on the tee. He called them calmly and without emotion, and players took their warning and re-threw without complaint. Everyone had the exact same oversight.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:49 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is online now
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I'd think he could. But it's a little unfair for those 1 or 2 players, to have an official tagging along in their group, when no one else in their division has the same level of oversight.
What is unfair about it? The same rules apply to everyone.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:43 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is online now
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
What is unfair about it? The same rules apply to everyone.
Indeed. Is the issue that there wouldn't be the same level of enforcement of the rules? IE an official would possibly bring greater scrutiny, and fewer blind eyes?

An interesting arguement if the 'unfairness' is actually having the rules enforced?

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  #16  
Old 09-17-2019, 06:31 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
Indeed. Is the issue that there wouldn't be the same level of enforcement of the rules? IE an official would possibly bring greater scrutiny, and fewer blind eyes?

An interesting arguement if the 'unfairness' is actually having the rules enforced?

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  #17  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:59 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
What is unfair about it? The same rules apply to everyone.
The rules do apply to everyone equally. What doesn't apply equally is the push back within the group for the groups who ONLY self-officiate, vs those that have a non-playing official. That official makes a call without any thought of repercussion. If the players inthe group make a similar call, they are often worried about a higher level of scrutiny placed upon themselves later in the round.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by araytx View Post
The rules do apply to everyone equally. What doesn't apply equally is the push back within the group for the groups who ONLY self-officiate, vs those that have a non-playing official. That official makes a call without any thought of repercussion. If the players inthe group make a similar call, they are often worried about a higher level of scrutiny placed upon themselves later in the round.
There's nothing unfair about not getting to be in a group of people who are too timid to enforce the rules.
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:25 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
There's nothing unfair about not getting to be in a group of people who are too timid to enforce the rules.
Some things are opinions.

Some things are facts.

Everyone gets to decide for him/herself.
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:04 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by araytx View Post
Some things are opinions.

Some things are facts.

Everyone gets to decide for him/herself.
What's your working definition for something being "unfair"?
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