#21  
Old 07-28-2019, 08:20 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is online now
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Originally Posted by GripEnemy View Post
What molds are "too understable" for you?
In that vain get a clearly US mold that is not too US or Disc will just go to the right or turn and burn (in plastic of your choice and weight you want) and use that to test, a clearly US mold and if it just turns and burns yet you are throwing a OS mold fine, then you are strong arming.

I know I strong arm a Champion Destroyer 168-167 grams with the full correct X step just due to the fact the speed of mold is a tad much for me, would be better off with a Wraith in that same spot or even better speed an Orc, but I hate the Orc rim.
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  #22  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:35 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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Quick question for the experts: Is James Conrad strong arming?
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  #23  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:16 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Quick question for the experts: Is James Conrad strong arming?
No way. He puts all his body through the shot but waits for the arm forward/launch position to unload the disc.

You can see his fundamental form much easier in this powered down shot.


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  #24  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
There is a sliding scale of strong arming or smash factor efficiency. Possible you were just moving everything together with an even smash factor of 1, but now with more lag your smash factor might be 1.2 or something. Strong arming would be a smash factor of <1.
This is an interesting concept I hadn’t really heard before.

In theory, assuming everything else is “perfect” does this imply that smash factor is lag between the hips and shoulders?

Equal speed of hips to shoulders would mean smash factor = 1? I know this is hypothetical.
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:58 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
This is an interesting concept I hadn’t really heard before.

In theory, assuming everything else is “perfect” does this imply that smash factor is lag between the hips and shoulders?

Equal speed of hips to shoulders would mean smash factor = 1? I know this is hypothetical.
"Smash factor" in ball golf is ball speed divided by club head speed, so it's just a measure of swing efficiency transfer to the ball and how much faster the ball accelerates than the club head. This is mostly related to how well you strike thru the contact point. If you can't hit the ball square with the club head your smash factor will suck. Likewise in disc golf if your grip/point of contact and deployment/release of the disc head thru sucks, you won't have efficient transfer of energy to the disc accelerating faster than your hand or "arm speed".

"X-factor" is the rotational separation between the hips and shoulders which can affect smash factor. The theory goes that more separation should increase club head speed, but just because a little of something is good, doesn't always mean that more is better and a whole lot of it could be disastrous.

When I'm referring to the hips leading the shoulders it's almost always regarding linear/spacial relativity, rather than rotational relativity which mostly happens as byproduct. The hips/butt lead the stride linearly and the shoulders lag linearly behind and rotates them back like Door Frame Drill(shouldn't be any attempt to rotate the hips or shoulders - it happens from moving forward ground up and the inertia of the door frame pulling you back into rotation). I recommend a loose free wheeling backswing from the ground up, the rear foot angle and stride speed dictates the backswing length and everything upstairs flows/floats back. The core starts to tighten as you transition and shift forward, in the forward swing I recommend trying to keep the hips and shoulders moving together rotationally, the shoulders will always lag thru the torso even when trying to prevent it, just like with the wrist spring, is the torso spring. Tighter springs can load and unload more force. You want a solid core to brace for impact with and deliver the blow.

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  #26  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
"Smash factor" in ball golf is ball speed divided by club head speed, so it's just a measure of swing efficiency transfer to the ball and how much faster the ball accelerates than the club head. This is mostly related to how well you strike thru the contact point. If you can't hit the ball square with the club head your smash factor will suck. Likewise in disc golf if your grip/point of contact and deployment/release of the disc head thru sucks, you won't have efficient transfer of energy to the disc accelerating faster than your hand or "arm speed".

"X-factor" is the rotational separation between the hips and shoulders which can affect smash factor. The theory goes that more separation should increase club head speed, but just because a little of something is good, doesn't always mean that more is better and a whole lot of it could be disastrous.

When I'm referring to the hips leading the shoulders it's almost always regarding linear/spacial relativity, rather than rotational relativity which mostly happens as byproduct. The hips/butt lead the stride linearly and the shoulders lag linearly behind and rotates them back like Door Frame Drill(shouldn't be any attempt to rotate the hips or shoulders - it happens from moving forward ground up and the inertia of the door frame pulling you back into rotation). I recommend a loose free wheeling backswing from the ground up, the rear foot angle and stride speed dictates the backswing length and everything upstairs flows/floats back. The core starts to tighten as you transition and shift forward, in the forward swing I recommend trying to keep the hips and shoulders moving together rotationally, the shoulders will always lag thru the torso even when trying to prevent it, just like with the wrist spring, is the torso spring. Tighter springs can load and unload more force. You want a solid core to brace for impact with and deliver the blow.
Thanks for laying all that out. Makes total sense!
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JedV View Post
Excellent demo and beautiful editing as always!

However, I'd advise you to add a disclaimer to not try this at home... Someone with inferior technique is going to get their fingers pinched, particularly if they set themselves up a little too far forward or don't release cleanly.

Could spell the end of someone's throwing career (or force them to learn to use their non-dominant arm )

Yeah, you don't want to get Munson'd


By the way, I always wondered the same thing as the OP for this thread, so thank you to all who gave insight into it.

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  #28  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:19 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
No way. He puts all his body through the shot but waits for the arm forward/launch position to unload the disc.
Is that fast long runup doing anything "serious" for his distance potential? Would love your thoughts on that compared to Emerson Keith's slow x-step. Thx.
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  #29  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:31 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Is that fast long runup doing anything "serious" for his distance potential? Would love your thoughts on that compared to Emerson Keith's slow x-step. Thx.
For me anything more than a slower hopping X-step actually hurts my throw because I don't have perfect balance and tempo. Conrad on the other hand has it dialed in.

Someone said that Conrad used to do high jump, which makes sense why he's comfortable with that run up. It made no sense to me why he did that before.

I would love to see him with that more traditional X-step throw and see how much distance he still gets. I bet it's more his "routine" rather than actually translating to much more help. That said he throws so far that he often relies on Thunderbirds when others are throwing Destroyers, so he definitely would rather power up on discs than tone it back....which is also why he throws putters all the time.

However, in so many situations he's worried about the amount of room behind the tee and in front of it, so I think it causes him lots of issues in several situations aside from just his form through the throw.

I honestly don't know what % he gains or if he's just comfortable with it. Because I can't relate to adding more X-step pace and seeing gains in my own form at this point, my efficiency is reduced.

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