Movement in top 10

[Mando]

Amenities definitely better,elevation and character are hard to gauge from photos...I don't see it.

[tallpaul]

Originally Posted by Mando

Same old story;amenities rule the day in Minnesota and Wisco. I'm not buying it. But i do love those concrete pads...

I seeded Wilderness 3rd of the three!

[Mando]

I can't have a meaningful convo with anyone who thinks the lack of concrete precludes a course from greatness...

[wellsbranch250]

Originally Posted by Mando

Amenities definitely better,elevation and character are hard to gauge from photos...I don't see it.

Elevation change is equivalent to Harmon which i verified using surveyed data. the vibe at Harmon is definitely better. You really ought to play it and see for yourself. i scored Harmon a 4.305 and Wilderness a 4.423 preliminary. less than 1/8 of disc apart... not even a mini.

[Mando]

Originally Posted by wellsbranch250

Elevation change is equivalent to Harmon which i verified using surveyed data. the vibe at Harmon is definitely better. You really ought to play it and see for yourself. i scored Harmon a 4.305 and Wilderness a 4.423 preliminary. less than 1/8 of disc apart... not even a mini.

They do have some of the best-looking concrete pads I've seen in awhile at Wilderness. Is that like a +.55556 in your rating, or higher ? Sounds like you need to hit up Sabbatatus too...

[wellsbranch250]

Originally Posted by Mando

They do have some of the best-looking concrete pads I've seen in awhile at Wilderness. Is that like a +.55556 in your rating, or higher ? Sounds like you need to hit up Sabbatatus too...

The delta different on the tee surfaces was precisely 0.090 in my ratings between the two courses. Having a respectable teeing surface is a factor in my ratings but far less than the factor of beauty, variety, challenge, risk reward and design. those are the most important aspects.

[Countchunkula]

Originally Posted by Mando

Something occurred to me the other day; and that is, why is the tee pad rating always geared to the pad surface, rather than the visual from the pad ?

'Cause I suck bad enough with stable footing?

Seriously, that's basically it. For me, the way a hole plays off of the tee is probably the most important criteria. What are the possible lines? Which of those can I maybe hit? Is the shot required one that I throw all the time or do I have to step outside my comfort zone? You get the idea.

If the footing is bad, then it changes the way I play off the tee. It limits the reasonable options and reduces the fun. If I can see a line to the pin on a tricky hole, but don't think it's worth the risk solely due to the footing, it limits the fun.

I'm not opposed to surfaces other than the almighty concrete. As long as the tee is basically level, reasonably sized, has sufficient traction when dry, and isn't placed in a location that always collects water; I'm fine with it.

As far as the visual aspect, I absolutely factor that in. In some cases, I would say the view from the tee is more important to me than the quality of the pad. I also think back to the "moist tee" on hole 6 at Stafford Lake in Nor Cal. It's a beautiful top of the world shot, but at least when I played it, the tee was natural, muddy, and not long enough to do a more than an abbreviated X-step. It is/was carved a bit into the hillside on the back side and drops off in front. At the time, I wasn't at all comfortable throwing standstill off of the tee. If the tee was a few feet longer and didn't hold water, it would have been much more fun to play. If I were to go back now, I'd be fine throwing a standstill off of the tee, but that's not for everyone.

A lot of players like an x-step to get in rhythm though. I absolutely want the room and confidence in my footing to do one if I'm throwing anywhere near max power. That's why to me, the quality of the tee is usually more important than the view.

[BogeyNoMore]

Originally Posted by Countchunkula

If the footing is bad, then it changes the way I play off the tee. It limits the reasonable options and reduces the fun. If I can see a line to the pin on a tricky hole, but don't think it's worth the risk solely due to the footing, it limits the fun.

I'm not opposed to surfaces other than the almighty concrete. As long as the tee is basically level, reasonably sized, has sufficient traction when dry, and isn't placed in a location that always collects water; I'm fine with it.

I have to agree with this.

[Mando]

Originally Posted by wellsbranch250

Harmon Hills was just bumped out of my personal top ten (now 11th) 2 weeks ago, by a course called Wilderness. It has some similarities to Harmon Hills, but it’s more of a cross between the IDGC courses Warner and Jackson. 9 reviews in its rocking a 4.67. I think it has potential to make the DGCR top 25 if it ever hits 21 reviews. Anyone who loves 8,000 foot fully wooded courses over undulating terrain will love it.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I had not heard about it. Will definitely play it when I get to Wisco.

[NDABRUSH]

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore

I have to agree with this.

Just remember, I gave you nice #2000.