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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3921  
Old 08-31-2019, 03:08 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Is it worth having a different set of parameters to set par for different skill levels?
YES!!! Unquestionably YES!!

Steve,

Personally, I am super excited to see you turning your considerable skills, data, and experience in this direction!!

I have believed for a long time that since there are different course levels then there should be appropriate pars for those courses. My thoughts are expressed at Key Par Issues.
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  #3922  
Old 08-31-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Should 900-rated players expect more scores over par because they are not as good at avoiding errors?
I think it would be helpful to set some parameters to this discussion...
Can we assume that Skill level pars are only set on courses of the corresponding skill level?

I think that if a Red or Green level course is used for discussion then that will show that using Gold level par is not appropriate. There are more Red level courses out there, but Green level courses show this even better.
Red level ratings = 825 to 874 with 850 PR at the center
Green level ratings = 775 to 824 with 800 at the center
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  #3923  
Old 08-31-2019, 03:55 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olorin View Post
I think it would be helpful to set some parameters to this discussion...
Can we assume that Skill level pars are only set on courses of the corresponding skill level?

I think that if a Red or Green level course is used for discussion then that will show that using Gold level par is not appropriate. There are more Red level courses out there, but Green level courses show this even better.
Red level ratings = 825 to 874 with 850 PR at the center
Green level ratings = 775 to 824 with 800 at the center
I think I do need to clarify that I am talking about 900 rated players in relation to par set for 900 rated players. Of course 900 rated players will have a tough time getting par set for 1000-rated players.

As thing stand now, it turns out that 1000-rated players will typically get as many scores over par as under par against par set for 1000-rated players. Should 900-rated players also typically get as many scores under par and over par for 900-rated players, or should they get more scores over par than under par?

By parameters, I mean something different than in most other methods. In CRP, for example, the length of the throw off the tee will be a different parameter for each skill level.

For my method, it's a given that we would use the scores of 900-rated players to set par for 900-rated players. But, should we bother to apply a different formula to those scores?

Specifically, for 1000-rated par, the formula is to call it a par 3 if at least 45% of players get a 3 or better.

For 900-rated players to be able to score above and below par equally we would only call a hole a par 3 if 58% of players got a three or better. This also makers their average scores as near 900-rated par as 1000-rated players are to 1000-rated par.

This change of 45% to 58% - on top of using 900-rated scores - is what I'm questioning.

As it turns out, the 58% parameter is good for all skill levels from 930 down. So, at least there would only be three sets of percentages.

Another way to phrase it is, are at least 76.7% of 1000-rated player throws effectively errorless by 1000-rated standards, but at least 83.3% of 900-rated player throws are errorless by 900-rated standards?

If you want to assume that the skill-level pars are to be set for only courses designed for the appropriate skill level, go ahead. I don't really believe in that. I see every skill level play every course, so I would like pars for all skill levels on very tee sign.

Go ahead and discuss for pink, green, or red, too. The same philosophical questions still apply.
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  #3924  
Old 09-03-2019, 11:07 AM
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I made an eagle yesterday...yay!
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  #3925  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:37 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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DGPT - MVP Open at Maple Hill 2019.

Looks like par for FPO and MPO could have been the same, and #17 could have been par 3.


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File Type: png MVP19Hist.png (50.6 KB, 212 views)
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  #3926  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:12 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Against my better judgement I will put this out here. Hawk Hollow has for years been a Par 64 course with Par rating varying from 980 down to 962 (SSA 61 to 59 essentially). This has suited my preference for a "blue plus" course very well.

Since it is being used for the USWDGC I have done considerable redesign/tweaking which produces a Par of 65 with my hope that par falls around 940. Some limited play has seemed to back this up. (Helps that i am a 940 player myself so I have a good idea of how they play) Tomorrow i am holding a flex start c-tier which will test my theories more fully.

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  #3927  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:34 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Par played 953 today. A lot of people played blind though so i expect it to fall in nicely around the 940 mark for the big event. hawk hollow open

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  #3928  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:58 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Anyone know if the new PDGA digital scorecard allows the TD to set par at 2? 1? 7? etc.
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  #3929  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olorin View Post

My thoughts are expressed at Key Par Issues.
This is the tee pad problem.
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  #3930  
Old 09-23-2019, 09:29 PM
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2019 United States Women's Disc Golf Championships - presented by Spotsy Disc Golf Club and Driven by Innova Discs

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File Type: png LLpar.png (53.3 KB, 105 views)
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