#11  
Old 10-24-2019, 04:35 PM
Shamis Shamis is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post


If your arm isn't lagging, you're using too much muscle.
Your videos need cliff notes
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2019, 08:24 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
Your videos need cliff notes
There is a lot in there but it's the details and nuances that SW puts into his videos that set him apart from the pro clinic videos. Cliff Notes might get students through high school and college but not graduate school.
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2019, 10:19 PM
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DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
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Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
Your videos need cliff notes
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Originally Posted by RFrance View Post
There is a lot in there but it's the details and nuances that SW puts into his videos that set him apart from the pro clinic videos. Cliff Notes might get students through high school and college but not graduate school.
SW has a lot of good videos and I have learned some, but a readable script for each video would be EXTREMELY helpful.
His instructions are great, I’m sure, but I can’t get past the poor sound and mumbling.
I have enjoyed the one or two vids with subtitles. Subtitles would be also be an improvement.
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2019, 07:30 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
So I'm still not getting anywhere in my practice sessions or playing in regards to throwing farther with ease and throwing the disc properly. I'm getting a little more consistent, and accuracy is improving a tad, but that's just from playing a lot of actual rds, not from any form improvement while practicing.
How far do you typically throw...driver, fairway, mid, putter?
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2019, 12:17 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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One thing people do not mention is the X step within the run up. In the X step part one should have the non front foot in front of the initial front foot with about a 1/2 inch to inch gap or they will trip, thus making a Cross over X step. Having the trailing foot toes only match up with the front foot heel with the about 1/2 inch to inch gap is going to result in a loss of 5%-10% of power as they are then not set up on top for the legs to lead over the arm and often both are working at the same time. I agree with this thought as players are leaving ability to gain power. It helps set up that Lag that others are talking about as the legs are then often further forward of the arm in the throw though the rounding can still occur with the arms and having the arm too far back. also the hip/waist rotation and snap is then not there as much with the feet in line with each other when a player goes to throw.
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  #16  
Old 10-28-2019, 12:03 PM
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SuperWookie SuperWookie is online now
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
How far do you typically throw...driver, fairway, mid, putter?
I was throwing aprox these distances from a stand still or 1 step X step about 2-3 months ago:
Putters - 250-270'
Mids - 270-290'
FW's - 280-310'
Control Drivers - 290-340'

Now everything has come back at least 10-20'. And much farther back on multi step X step throws. I was getting some out 360-390 when things went really well. But that is because i I was strong arming and rounding and had reached the limit my body could throw with beginner form. I am no longer mashing on it with my arm (strong arming/rounding). I'm trying to use the weight shift, balance, leverage and mechanics of the different levers (body, shoulder, elbow, wrist) to throw now and just be smoother overall. My throwing on the course has gotten a little better because it's slightly more consistent and smoother, but it's still not good or great. And the distance is not moving up at all anymore. It's been stuck where I'm at for 3-4 months now

I'm just having an extremely difficult time understanding exactly how it feels to throw it properly and trying to find things I already know well to relate to how it feels to throw a disc. Hence the Lag from golf analogy. I've read SOOO much, and while you guys might think it is cohesive and all more or less saying the same thing, as someone who HASN'T thrown it far and properly yet with that feeling of lag or snap (whatever you want to call it), it seems conflicting and is very difficult to pin down. Others have mentioned: "stop thinking about all the ways people throw differently and pay attention to what they do the same." And I agree to a certain degree with that. But it's also a problem. As TONS of players throw so differently and that makes it extremely confusing to know HOW I should go about learning to throw. Who I should be using as an example to spend countless hours practicing, that will eventually yield good results in the shortest time possible.

I am very tall, thinner, very athletic, strong, fast, and have very good coordination. So basically a body/ability like Simon or Conrad. So I naturally right away, gravitated towards Simon's throwing style. I watched a bunch of pros throw (not knowing who any of them where), and RIGHT AWAY knew I wanted to have a swing similar to his. Just like when I played golf, I saw Freddie Couples and Ernie Els and knew right away, I want to swing more like them (and I eventually did). And in baseball, it was only Ken Griffey Jr for me. Federer for tennis. you get the point. That is how I swing in sports. Fluid, powerful, long, effortless and with great form.

I know there are tons of ways to get to the hit, and then throw it far. I look at an Avery, Feldberg, Doss and think to myself, "how in the h*ll are they even throwing it?!?!" They look so stiff, awkward, and like there is no elbow out front, no whip, no sling, etc. (I'm sure they do some of those, I'm just saying their swing LOOKS like they don't). But yet, they throw it far! So I know leveraging the opposite side of the disc is the key, not necessarily HOW you get to that point. But It just looks impossible to throw like that, in my mind. And I don't see how they are throwing it at all. So I want to learn to throw more like Simon and guys like that, as it just makes sense in my mind. The idea that HUB talks about, "THE MAGIC" and protecting that at all costs. I'm trying to learn that and groove it into my swing, but it's not happening.

But I look at Simon, Paul, Drew Gibson, Eagle, Keegan, Shue, JohnE and some others and I can see how they throw it far. Their throwing style just makes sense to me. But then when I try to go practice and use their swings as examples, nothing gets better. Same when trying to use others throwing styles I don't like (such as Doss, Avery, Feldberg, etc). So I just don't know WHERE I should even start. SW is trying to teach us his method he has learned for HIS body type that works very well for HIM and some others. But I don't think his body type and throwing style is going to work as well for me with my body type and athletic ability. I can pull things from his teachings and style for sure, that WILL help me. But overall, his swing doesn't make sense to me.

And then when I ask for advice, I have people yelling at me to just throw it. I have people yelling at me to just keep my arm loose. I have SW and others who look like there arm is not loose, and in fact more guided. I see certain pros look really loose (Calvin Heimburg) and other pros look really stiff (Avery, Feldber, Doss). I see certain pros with looseness AND what looks like a lot of power put into the shot (Simon, Eagle). So it's extremely confusing. Should I literally keep my arm like a dead fish and just use my body and weight transfer to WHIP my arm around, using little to no help from my arm? Or should I whip my arm to the point where my elbow is out front and then crank on it? Lots of questions and I never get the same answer. So it's extremely confusing to know what to do and what to spend my time on, to actually get better.

At this point, I'm just resigned to the fact that this is going to take forever and not come easy at all. Unlike any other sport or skill I've learned. This is THE HARDEST skill to learn for me up to this point in my life. Golf was easier. Baseball easier. Tennis easier. Hockey slapshot, snapshot and wristshot way easier. Guitar easier. Learning a foreign language easier. But I'm not going to give up. I'm going to keep at it. I just wish something would click finally and start working after ALL these countless hours practicing and playing. You would think by now, I'd have felt it a little bit and had some success. Anyways, thanks for the help and advice so far, anything else you can think of that may help is appreciated. Best
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:12 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
I was throwing aprox these distances from a stand still or 1 step X step about 2-3 months ago:
Putters - 250-270'
Mids - 270-290'
FW's - 280-310'
Control Drivers - 290-340'
Those aren't bad at all for stand still, 1 step x-step. I know other people disagree with me, but even the perfect "looking" form won't throw 400ft if either you're arm speed limited or spin limited. If I would recommend anything, I would say go throw putters and don't come back until you can throw them 300ft. That will teach you to put spin on the disc and when applied to other discs you will see improvement as well. I'm an old fart and arm speed limited, but I'm throwing putters 290+, mids 300+ all day long now. Many theories on all of this, but in a nutshell slower discs need more spin to go far, faster discs need more speed to go far. That's why I routinely do field work with both putters and slower overstable discs, and throw them as far as I can (trying to beat max d each time) to help build both spin and speed.

I also think due to the internet, it has caused alot of players to over analyze, over think, too much technically about their form. I've read plenty of interviews where players were shown the very basics about throwing at a young age and over time their unique form just developed. So I also agree with "just go out and keep on throwing". Keep in mind, once any player starts throwing consistently over 300, the gains from that point on seem to take much longer and each gain is usually fairly small.

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  #18  
Old 10-29-2019, 01:22 AM
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DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
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I am 61, 6'6", 210lbs, so I fit the long and lanky and the old guy.
I have just started consistently throwing putters to 270' and mids to 300' and drivers to about 350'.
Don't consider myself athletically gifted, and disc golf has been a real challenge for me as well.

After playing for about 6 years and reaching a plateau in distance and skill, I stopped playing and started doing field work almost exclusively.
That was 5 years ago...
My original goal was to throw mids to 300' without effort and understand form enough to diagnose problems quickly.
Every progression has been 3 steps forward and 2 back.
Filming my throw, submitting to Form Critiques Forum, and then working on the things they said.
Over and over and over.
Going out to the field lately and seeing Comets and Cobras, throw after throw, go out to 300' has been a real joy.
I'll even get a Dart or Envy or Colt out to 300' occasionally.

Why did I say all that?
Stick with it and stay positive.
The harder a goal is to attain, the sweeter the success.


Last edited by DiscJunkie; 10-29-2019 at 01:24 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-29-2019, 02:02 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Unlike any other sport or skill I've learned. This is THE HARDEST skill to learn for me up to this point in my life.
I've said the same thing, pretty sure HUB as too. The irony is that it's so simple to do once you get it, but hard to explain.

"The fine golf swing is truly achievement. Man may lie, cheat and steal for gain, but he will never obtain the golf swing. To gain a golf swing, man must work. It's work without toil, it's intoxication without hangover, it's stimulation without the pills, it's defeating yet it takes courage, it is humbling, it enables the human spirit, its price is high yet its rewards are richer." - Moe Norman

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  #20  
Old 10-30-2019, 06:33 AM
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rhatton1 rhatton1 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
At this point, I'm just resigned to the fact that this is going to take forever and not come easy at all. Unlike any other sport or skill I've learned. This is THE HARDEST skill to learn for me up to this point in my life. Golf was easier. Baseball easier. Tennis easier. Hockey slapshot, snapshot and wristshot way easier. Guitar easier. Learning a foreign language easier. But I'm not going to give up. I'm going to keep at it. I just wish something would click finally and start working after ALL these countless hours practicing and playing. You would think by now, I'd have felt it a little bit and had some success. Anyways, thanks for the help and advice so far, anything else you can think of that may help is appreciated. Best
It's backwards, it's an alien motion, it's the same as learning any of the above sports wronghanded, but there are some crossovers to sports you have done before.

You've played tennis well.

Playing tennis, do you have a stiff arm or a loose arm? Do you think about the lag when you hit the ball or do you just trust your body to get in the right positions and unleash fury? Your arm in disc golf should be like your arm in tennis, it will be loose but your arm/shoulder muscles will be engaged enough to deliver what is required to make the racket swing and resist the weight of the ball as it comes onto the racket, you won't be consciously aware you are using those muscles, you don't try and muscle the racket with your arm, you use the ground and your legs and body to generate the swing.

Put a tennis racket in your hand, run to the left side of the court pretending the ball has gone across you and slightly behind (behind is important in this to keep you closed off) chase it down and then one hand backhanded smash it down the tram lines right into the corner . This is very very similar to the disc golf backhand motion. Then do it with a tennis racket and holding a disc at the same time (the disc may fly out by itself as your grip won't be strong, don't worry, no problem.) Now drop the racket and do the same thing, still in your mind try and hit that ball with the racket, ie you are trying to swing an imaginary racket and make your point of contact beyond the disc in your hand. Trick your brain. This is the time to resist muscling up. Pretend you're still swinging the racket and releasing the head of the racket, Let your body do what it knows and the disc will follow..... Maybe.
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