Holding branches down while shooting from a bush?

[araytx]

Originally Posted by DiscFifty

Players's disc lands in a heavily thorned brush. Player has no easy entrance..anywhere. Player is close enough that a re-throw is not advisable. Player decides the least physically damaging (to eyes, etc) is to back in to a point past the lie and throw.

The above situation has come up SEVERAL times in tournaments I have played in, what is the correct procedure from both a player and officiating point of view?

I certainly believe this one (below) is the correct answer:

Originally Posted by JC17393

If a player backs into the bush and is holding back branches in the process, it's a one-throw penalty (803.01.C).

If the player wants to avoid injury from the thorns, then his options are obvious: re-throw from the previous lie with a one-throw penalty or take line of play relief behind the obstacle with a one-throw penalty.

Now to the debate about when a disc is in such a dense bush that a legal stance is not possible:

Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus

No such thing.

The disc is not ob. There is no free relief. The rules of disc golf are very simple. Your question has been answered already. The rules aren't dependent on vegetation density.

Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh

I've thrown discs that can only be retrieved with a grabber or a stick. Getting my body to the lie would require breaking branches or use of a machete, at the very very least simply getting a point onto the lie can only be done by holding branches out of the way. There is a such thing as unreachable.

I said essentially OB. There is no free relief therefore the next throw is either a re-throw or optional penalized relief... which is actually more restrictive than if the disc truly is OB, regardless i'm looking at a penalty stroke.

I KNOW the rules aren't dependent on the vegetation density, thus the question in the forum. Options for a disc that can't be reached short of blazing a path into the brush.

PFD, Sorry, I'm with Armus on this. Basically, I want to see such a "bush". I've been playing in Texas and around the same areas as DiscFifty, and I haven't seen one yet. When I do, I'll eat this crow and say I'm wrong. But someone is gonna have to show me that bush.

There's nearly always a way to get a lay-down, or hand-on-lie, or some other legal stance somehow. And if the "bush" is so big & dense that it is being deemed a solid object for solid object relief, I find it VERY HARD to believe that a TD isn't addressing how to play it before the event. Surely SOMEONE in that tournament has played the course before.

[Armus Patheticus]

I've always enjoyed the challenge of playing out of horrible spots, even in casual play. I've seen an awful lot of thorns and briers and bushes but never an impossible lie.

[Discette]

I have been in every kind of rough including Briars, Rosehips and Buckthorn. I have seen Honey Locust trees with 6 inch long thorns; Blackberry bushes the size of a two car garage that could rip the flesh from your bones; I have played through patches of poison ivy, poison oak, poison sumac and courses with every type of cactus. I have played courses among swarms of mosquitos, gnats and ticks, plus courses with hornets, bees and other biting things.


With all these menaces on the course, I still hate it most when I land in the center of an Easter Red Cedar, especially when they are untrimmed to the ground. The worst part about Cedars is they are a year round problem no matter where you live. While the other trees lose leaves, the Cedars remain green and steadfast guardians of the fairway through every single season.

[Karl]

/\ /\ /\
Itch, itch, itch!

[Norvelljeff]

Thank you all for answering my question. Awesome

[DiscFifty]

Originally Posted by araytx

Basically, I want to see such a "bush". I've been playing in Texas and around the same areas as DiscFifty, and I haven't seen one yet. When I do, I'll eat this crow and say I'm wrong. But someone is gonna have to show me that bush.

I've had dozens of bloody legs, arms moments from getting discs out of heavily thorned bushes in the DFW area. Hell...I was once told...if you ain't bleeding you ain't playing disc golf in Texas.

[araytx]

Originally Posted by DiscFifty

I've had dozens of bloody legs, arms moments from getting discs out of heavily thorned bushes in the DFW area. Hell...I was once told...if you ain't bleeding you ain't playing disc golf in Texas.

OH Yeah! I've had many a bloody arm/leg, scratches & scrapes, allergic reactions, etc. myself. I just haven't seen one that a player couldn't get to in order to make a throw. That Cedar above -- no way it's "too dense".

I will point out my closest example. Back when Mt. Lebanon DGC in Cedar Hill, TX was active, there definitely were some places there, where getting to your disc could tear you up. Playing on the card with good friend, Greg Cox one time, his tee shot was up in some terrible dense thorny bushes all clustered together. He decided that he could get to the disc, but getting a throw out was the prob, so he chose to re-tee throwing three. Dude park it 6 ft away for a 4p. He believed the best he would have gotten was a 5 trying the throw out, and a likely 6.