#21  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:20 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Pssst. People don't care about the Masters fields. Now, that isn't to say they should play on substandard tee pads or dangerous conditions. But, like it or not, the Masters fields are about as valuable as an Am field to the public.

I am going to say to them what I say to Ams when they complain about not getting to play the toughest tees at any event. "You want to play the big boy tees, play with the big boys."

IMO as long as the course wasn't a pitch and putt, you don't really have a lot to complain about. As long as the payout met minimum standards, you can't complain about that. No one wants to film them because they get no views on YouTube, so can't complain about exposure.

Funny thing is that more and more players are aging into the Master's fields, but the numbers STILL say that few people want to actually watch them play.
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:34 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Originally Posted by Hyzer Ale View Post
I don't want to make our sport more like ball golf, but for majors they have it right. I like the idea of having 4 majors:

USDGC - Always at the same course
Worlds - As the sport grows can be held anywhere in the world
European open - Can be held anywhere in Europe
a 4th major - something that rotates around the US/North America to start with but any country can bid on it (we are years away from needing more than one major outside the US)
This "we only need 4 majors because golf has 4 majors" thing is one of the most incorrect common comments you see.

In professional men's golf (what we would call the open division) there are 4 majors.

Total Major titles so far: 4.

In professional women's golf (what we would call the FPO division) there are 4 majors. Two of them have the same title as the men (US and British) and 2 don't share.

Total major titles so far: 6

In senior men's professional golf (What we call MP40+) there are 5 majors. 3 share a title (British, PGA and US) and 2 are stand alone.

Total major titles so far: 9.

In senior women's professional golf (what we call FP40) there is 1 major. It's the US, so still at 9.

In Amateur Golf there are 4 between men and women. Since these are all amateur events, new titles.

Total majors in golf: 13.

So when people say "golf has 4 majors why do we have so many" that's just comparing one division of majors to an entire sports and is just wrong.

In reality, each age / sex / skill really sees about the same number and amount of majors as golf currently.
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:35 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Before this thread gets hijacked into the 1043rd rendition of the "what I think majors should be" discussion, something needs to be made clear. Every time this discussion comes up, the arguments tend to discount any major that doesn't involve MPO as not a "real" major, which is a faulty premise to start from. So let's be clear whether we're talking MPO only or majors across all ages and genders.

This year...
there are 3 MPO majors: Worlds, USDGC, European Open
there are 3 FPO majors: Worlds, USWDGC, European Open
there are 2 Pro age-protected majors: Worlds, Selinske
there are 3 Amateur (MA1/FA1) majors: Am Worlds, USADGC/USWDGC, Am World Doubles
there are 3 Amateur age-protected majors: Am Worlds, Selinske, Am World Doubles
there is 1 Junior major: Jr Worlds

Using ball golf as a comparison

Four majors for their equivalent of MPO: US Open, British Open, PGA Championship, The Masters
Five majors for their equivalent of FPO: US Women's Open, British Women's Open, LPGA Championship, ANA Inspiration, Evian Championship
Five majors for their age-protected tour (50+): US Senior Open, British Senior Open, Senior PGA Championship, Senior Players Championship, The Tradition
Also major championships for amateurs: US Amateur, US Amateur 4-ball, US Mid-Amateurs (with variations for Seniors, Juniors, and Women) Plus amateur versions of the British Open as well.

Do we really have "too many"?
I just posted this very thing I saw the comment above and posted before scrolling down! Sorry for the double post!!
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  #24  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:45 PM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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Elaine King won by 21 strokes. Where are the outraged folks complaining that it wasn't fair for her competitors?

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  #25  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:51 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post

In reality, each age / sex / skill really sees about the same number and amount of majors as golf currently.
Nope. The Am Majors for golf do not award titles for a dozen different divisions. At USWDGC in 2 weeks we will award Major titles for 15+ divisions. Looking at it this way the number of Major titles in disc golf likely numbers well over 100.

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Old 09-09-2019, 03:52 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
Pssst. People don't care about the Masters fields. Now, that isn't to say they should play on substandard tee pads or dangerous conditions. But, like it or not, the Masters fields are about as valuable as an Am field to the public.

I am going to say to them what I say to Ams when they complain about not getting to play the toughest tees at any event. "You want to play the big boy tees, play with the big boys."

IMO as long as the course wasn't a pitch and putt, you don't really have a lot to complain about. As long as the payout met minimum standards, you can't complain about that. No one wants to film them because they get no views on YouTube, so can't complain about exposure.

Funny thing is that more and more players are aging into the Master's fields, but the numbers STILL say that few people want to actually watch them play.
That's true of exposure and video coverage.

It may be true of payout. If payout is being boosted by spectator fees and video coverage rights, definitely. And certainly, if the payout meets the minimum requirements for the tier, and any pre-event promotions, players are getting what they were promised.

But it's not true of the event quality. If seniors and amateurs are signing up for a high-tier event, traveling and paying high entry fees, they should have a high-quality event: well-run, good courses, etc. (I have no idea what the truth is in the conflicting claims about this particular event is).

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Old 09-09-2019, 03:58 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Nope. The Am Majors for golf do not award titles for a dozen different divisions. At USWDGC in 2 weeks we will award Major titles for 15+ divisions. Looking at it this way the number of Major titles in disc golf likely numbers well over 100.
Fair.

But the statement of "golf has 4 and we have 20" isn't very fair to compare.
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  #28  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:58 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
Pssst. People don't care about the Masters fields. Now, that isn't to say they should play on substandard tee pads or dangerous conditions. But, like it or not, the Masters fields are about as valuable as an Am field to the public.

I am going to say to them what I say to Ams when they complain about not getting to play the toughest tees at any event. "You want to play the big boy tees, play with the big boys."

IMO as long as the course wasn't a pitch and putt, you don't really have a lot to complain about. As long as the payout met minimum standards, you can't complain about that. No one wants to film them because they get no views on YouTube, so can't complain about exposure.

Funny thing is that more and more players are aging into the Master's fields, but the numbers STILL say that few people want to actually watch them play.
100% accurate.

I also don't think it's coincidence that the bulk of the complaints are coming from the players who either have been or still are full time touring players. They're coming from a perspective of attending a whole lot of tournaments that cater specifically to them and only them. They were an extremely small minority of the attendees this past weekend. 200+ players total, all of about 10 of which sported ratings over 1000 and maybe a handful more are regular attendees at many of the elite tour events (NT/DGPT) during the year. The rest of the field, while including many legends of the game, weren't there to cash in or be treated like kings. They, myself included, were there for the camaraderie and competition with their peers from around the country. We get that we're not going to get the same level of attention that the top MPO/FPO players get in terms of video coverage or on-site spectators or even sponsor-added amenities (cash and/or wares).

I had a great time this weekend. If they didn't change a thing and told me next year's event was going to be just the same, the only thing that would keep me away is how far away it is. A long weekend 3-4 hours' drive from home I can do. A longer weekend a few thousand miles from home is harder to pull off....maybe 2021, location depending, I'll go again.

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  #29  
Old 09-09-2019, 04:02 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
Fair.

But the statement of "golf has 4 and we have 20" isn't very fair to compare.
True- "golf has 13 and we have 100" is much worse...
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  #30  
Old 09-09-2019, 04:09 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
That's true of exposure and video coverage.

It may be true of payout. If payout is being boosted by spectator fees and video coverage rights, definitely. And certainly, if the payout meets the minimum requirements for the tier, and any pre-event promotions, players are getting what they were promised.

But it's not true of the event quality. If seniors and amateurs are signing up for a high-tier event, traveling and paying high entry fees, they should have a high-quality event: well-run, good courses, etc. (I have no idea what the truth is in the conflicting claims about this particular event is).
I agree. the events should be well run. And it sounds like this one was. Tee times were fairly accurate, the courses had officials and well marked (I assume because no one has complained about that). But the definition of a "good course" is extremely subjective. Everyone knew what courses they were playing before they got there. Was the course safe? Was it more than a pitch and putt? IMO, that is all you can really ask for in that division. The courses had pars of 58, 58, 56, 59. Doesn't seem too bad for a field of men over 40.

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