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Old 10-20-2019, 12:29 PM
Suspect Suspect is offline
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Default Holding branches down while shooting from a bush?

I see it at least one time during an event. Someone lands in or behind a bush/tree, then they hold limbs down that are interfering with their line. I want to call someone on it, but don't want to look like the douche.

Isn't that breaking a rule?
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:50 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Absolutely it is against the rules.

803.01
A. A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.
...
C. A player who moves any obstacle on the course other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.

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Old 10-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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Nova P Nova P is offline
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https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-...isc-golf/80301

A player must choose the stance that results in the least movement of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a stance has been taken, the player may not move an obstacle in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

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Old 10-20-2019, 04:47 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by Suspect View Post
I see it at least one time during an event. Someone lands in or behind a bush/tree, then they hold limbs down that are interfering with their line. I want to call someone on it, but don't want to look like the douche.
Absolutely NOT a douche move if you mention it before the player throws (i.e. basically when you notice them pushing bushes out of the way as they're getting ready to throw). You're just making the player aware they'll be penalized if the continue. At that point, it's on them.

However, staying silent during the moments leading up to the throw in the above situation, watching them about to throw, with the intent of calling it afterwards, just to be able to stroke them... that'd be a DB move.

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Old 10-20-2019, 09:56 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
Absolutely NOT a douche move if you mention it before the player throws (i.e. basically when you notice them pushing bushes out of the way as they're getting ready to throw). You're just making the player aware they'll be penalized if the continue. At that point, it's on them.

However, staying silent during the moments leading up to the throw in the above situation, watching them about to throw, with the intent of calling it afterwards, just to be able to stroke them... that'd be a DB move.
It's not always easy. I've given people advanced warnings, only to be told that they weren't going to do (whatever) on the actual throw. And sometimes, you can't be sure when the player is going to actually throw, and you don't want to speak up and interrupt his throw.

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Old 10-22-2019, 11:46 AM
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If you really want to be diplomatic, you can give people an unofficial warning after their transgression. It's not the ideal in rules enforcement, but depending on the severity, you can point out what they did, and caution them that it's improper.

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Old 10-28-2019, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
However, staying silent during the moments leading up to the throw in the above situation, watching them about to throw, with the intent of calling it afterwards, just to be able to stroke them... that'd be a DB move.
I get that the sportsmanlike and courteous thing to do is to educate the player on the rule before the throw. However, that is based on the assumption that the offending player doesn't know the rule. I also feel no sympathy for someone who doesn't know the rules of a sport when they are competing in that sport - especially such a basic rule - who gets a penalty enforced against them.

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Old 10-28-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
I get that the sportsmanlike and courteous thing to do is to educate the player on the rule before the throw. However, that is based on the assumption that the offending player doesn't know the rule. I also feel no sympathy for someone who doesn't know the rules of a sport when they are competing in that sport - especially such a basic rule - who gets a penalty enforced against them.
I get your point as well, and generally agee in principle: you should be aware of the rules when playing competitively.

However, quite a few of us (myself included) aren't up to speed on every rule in the book.

If I were about to commit an obvious infraction, and my cardmates watched me and waited until the disc left my hand to say something, I'd have to blame myself for not being aware of the appropriate rule.

But I'd still think the people that knew beforehand and remained silent were DB's.

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Old 10-28-2019, 02:26 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
I get your point as well, and generally agee in principle: you should be aware of the rules when playing competitively.

However, quite a few of us (myself included) aren't up to speed on every rule in the book.

If I were about to commit an obvious infraction, and my cardmates watched me and waited until the disc left my hand to say something, I'd have to blame myself for not being aware of the appropriate rule.

But I'd still think the people that knew beforehand and remained silent were DB's.
Agreed with this.

One of the biggest issues with rules enforcement forever has been worry about being the jerk who makes a call. A worry motivated primarily by a prevailing attitude that the only people that will call a violation are the ones out to gain every advantage and game their opponents. That prevailing attitude only gets reinforced if players take Doof's approach and choose to not offer advice to prevent a rules infraction in order to call the violation.

Unrelated to the thread topic but relevant to this point...this weekend, a player in my group landed just in-bounds, close enough that part of his disc was touching the OB string. Without marking or taking his meter, he lined up to throw from behind his disc with one foot OB. Two of us saw what was happening and before we could stop him (and we were both mid-warning), he threw. Unfortunately, we had to penalize him for the stance violation (we clearly saw it, we couldn't ignore it) but we'd have very much preferred to have stopped him and allowed him to take a legal stance, and told him as much. He took the penalty in stride realizing he'd made the error, and that we were trying to stop him from taking a penalty, not gang up on him in order to penalize him. Least contentious foot fault call I've ever been a part of. All calls of violations should go that way.
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:38 PM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
One of the biggest issues with rules enforcement forever has been worry about being the jerk who makes a call. A worry motivated primarily by a prevailing attitude that the only people that will call a violation are the ones out to gain every advantage and game their opponents. That prevailing attitude only gets reinforced if players take Doof's approach and choose to not offer advice to prevent a rules infraction in order to call the violation.
This weekend I played in a charity doubles tournament. We walked out to our starting holes and started practice putting. I decided to put a disc on the nub of the basket and ask the other players if it would be called good or not. Everybody said not good, and then I corrected them and explained the rule. Then another player from a different card then comes over to our basket.

"What do you mean that's in? It's definitely not in. What division do you play? I play MPO."
"I haven't played many tournaments lately, but when I do play I usually play in MPO. I've also read the rule book and am 100% certain I'm right."
"YEA WELL I PLAY MPO AND I KNOW YOU'RE WRONG, THE DISC HAS TO ENTER THE CHAINS AND COME TO REST IN THE BASKET."
"Ok dude." I pull up the rule on my phone. "This is what the rule says..." I even show him the picture from the Q&A
"OK WELL I STILL WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S SUPPORTED BY THE BASKET."

I overheard him after the event trash talking the AM player that doesn't know the rules. At this tournament I also had 2 different people tell me that you can only take "free" optional relief after going OB if the OB is "between you and the basket". They were adamant they were right. There wasn't even a call in question that they were defending - they just couldn't accept that, when I showed them the rule, it proved them wrong.

I guess what I'm trying to say is my experiences are very different than what you're describing. I would guess 2% of players have read the rules, but EVERYBODY thinks they know the rules and won't budge an inch. People hate being told they're wrong

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