#21  
Old 10-02-2019, 12:48 PM
ChrisWoj's Avatar
ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is online now
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Years Playing: 14.6
Courses Played: 144
Posts: 948
Niced 277 Times in 166 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
My opinions of a single hole are inextricably tied to the rest of the holes on the course.

I love BRP#4 but if I'm on an entire course that plays 18 holes exactly like BRP#4, I would say "this hole sucks".

Part of an epic signature hole is the anticipation that builds while working your way through the course to get to that hole, and that anticipation factor is going to depend on what the rest of the course is like.
I agree. I hope that this sentiment is caught up in prompts like:
"A round is more enjoyable if this hole is skipped over." or "This hole is worth playing every round" (anticipation)
"This hole is likely to contribute to negative reviews online." (over repetitive?)

Just thoughts - something related to uniqueness could be a good idea though.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-06-2019, 06:35 PM
Baked's Avatar
Baked Baked is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Georgia
Years Playing: 4.5
Courses Played: 44
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 633
Niced 286 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
My opinions of a single hole are inextricably tied to the rest of the holes on the course.

I love BRP#4 but if I'm on an entire course that plays 18 holes exactly like BRP#4, I would say "this hole sucks".

Part of an epic signature hole is the anticipation that builds while working your way through the course to get to that hole, and that anticipation factor is going to depend on what the rest of the course is like.
^^^This right here. You have to look at a particular hole in the context of the entire course. I like courses with a wide variety of shot shapes (left/right, uphill/downhill, open/tight), scenery and distances. For that reason, Hobbs Farm and Perkerson Park are rightly considered two of the top courses in Georgia. No individual holes really jump out, but both are monster, championship-level courses that will challenge every aspect of your game, force you into risk/reward decisions, and make you throw almost every disc in your bag. And yet both have some shorter and not particularly inspiring holes, to cleanse the palate in between the harder ones. A 200’ ace run is a welcome break after a massive par 5 that you can birdie one in 100 times if you’re lucky. The combination of different levels of difficulty creates a certain feel & rhythm that makes you look forward to playing the course over and over.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:03 AM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 15.4
Courses Played: 311
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 9,790
Niced 2,130 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default

Yep. While incorporating certain features or design elements in a given hole can make it "better," ...pressing that same button too many times can result in a course that starts to feel repetitive.

I don't claim to speak for everyone, but after all the time I've spent on this site, and all the players I've nerded out with about courses we've played in my travels, I feel comfortable saying that for most players, VARIETY is what makes a course (and the game, for that matter), more enjoyable.

Repeatedly playing a course that doesn't offer much variety quickly gets old. Some courses have much better replayability than others.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:14 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 24.3
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 15,095
Niced 3,290 Times in 1,455 Posts
Default

That truth just makes defining hole enjoyment all the more difficult. If you could put identical holes on 3 different courses, they might have 3 different enjoyment ratings, just as a matter of context.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:39 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 24.3
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 15,095
Niced 3,290 Times in 1,455 Posts
Default

…..I guess the reviewers need to try to be more objectively subjective, and try to judge a hole on its own.

Personally, I think it's an ambitious but futile undertaking, but I wish you luck.
Reply With Quote
 

  #26  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:54 AM
ChrisWoj's Avatar
ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is online now
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Years Playing: 14.6
Courses Played: 144
Posts: 948
Niced 277 Times in 166 Posts
Default

Good morning folk, I just updated this and will be collecting data in my first trial of the instrument on the coming weekend. I plan on trialing it on a few courses in my local area across a few events in the next 4 weeks. Unless someone sees something egregiously bad here, I'm going to be using this version.

This URL takes you to the PDF shared via Google Drive: CLICK HERE FOR INSTRUMENT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
uniqueness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
VARIETY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
If I were forced to never again play one hole of my choosing for the rest of my life, I would gleefully pick BRP 444.

Yet, if I wanted to try to improve the enjoyability of the local disc golf scene by picking holes in the Twin Cities to be eliminated from existence, BRP 444 would be one of the last survivors.
Let me know what you all think of what I included to try to cover the element of variety/uniqueness with a few prompts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzzChief View Post
"visual appeal"
I tried to incorporate some of this. Let me know what you think of how it looks. I tried a few options related to visuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevis View Post
risk/reward
I tried to build this in with a prompt: "The style of shot required for this hole is a fun challenge." - I feel like a hole with a poor risk reward element is going to naturally score low on this. I could still add something else in for risk reward later, trying not to make this too big a beast as you mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddL View Post
I would reword one of the questions
I actually wound up rewording a number of them. I had been planning on reverse-coding some of the ones that were, although positive in language, were negative in nature... but upon reading up on prior work it appears to be a bad move in general. So all questions that were negative in nature were flipped - language AND nature both are positive now moving left to right on the scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
anticipation that builds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baked View Post
^^^This right here context of the entire course
I definitely tried to add more elements related to context and anticipation, let me know how they work for you.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the proper way to measure hole distance? Harpo1989 Course Design 12 06-07-2017 01:12 PM
How to measure hole distance Insomniac General Disc Golf Chat 41 02-24-2016 06:42 PM
Need your help with a short survey to get a new 18-hole course! splatbaseball51 Disc Golf Courses 4 10-22-2015 03:09 PM
Hole Measure Points? DaddyD Course Design 16 05-22-2011 03:32 PM
How to Measure Hole Distances cc0049 Disc Golf Courses 49 11-10-2008 07:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.