#21  
Old 11-22-2017, 07:53 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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I could make the argument that sudden death can be more boring.

If player A totally shanks a tee shot, player B immediately is thinking par wins.

One playoff I was in this year, the other player threw a really bad tee shot. I then threw a really safe shot to 25 feet. He ended up hitting a 30 footer for par (which was exciting) and forced me to make it (which I did, also exciting), but had he missed, I simply lay up and it's over.

I try to make that putt in an aggregate playoff regardless of him making or missing for par in that scenario.
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:02 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Only on the first 2 holes of aggregate. The 3rd hole may be the same....or more boring, if the players tied the first 2. Sooner or later, you get to that point.

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  #23  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:35 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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As for tie-breakers in general, in all of the lower-tier events I've ever played in, I've never seen one cause a delay.

What happens---or what has happened, where I have been---is the tie-breakers are conducted unofficially, while cards are being counted. As soon as the lead card in the final round is finished, the players know they're tied; they are sent out to break the tie while the TDs are doing the paperwork before the meeting. Sudden death play is pretty quick, since it's just a twosome or threesome on an otherwise-vacant course. If it turns out the players weren't tied, but made a scoring error, it won't matter anyway.

I've never seen it happen, but it's possible a scorecard error, when corrected, results in a tie---and that tie-breaker would get off to a late start.

That seems good for 99% of events. Majors and perhaps tour events with a lot at stake, might want to verify scores before starting a playoff; and anything with live coverage probably wants to make sure the tie-breaker is real before showing it.

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I'd think that no one would be satisfied with a tie. But I wonder a bit why the PDGA mandates ties be broken; if all players involved agree to remain tied, what difference does it make?
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:33 AM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
From a practical standpoint, unless there's a traveling trophy involved, I'd be for no first place playoffs and split the prizes in B & C-tiers regardless of division. Theoretically, it's you against the course, not the other players. If two or three of you shoot the same scores against the course, you simply tied. If there are trophies involved, let the players figure out how they want to determine who gets what trophy, maybe a simple 2-throw CTP.
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I'm not engaging in a competition to wind up in a tie. I once lost a 7-hole playoff in an insignificant amateur geezer division.....but I'd much rather have that scar, than an unsatisfying tie. Yuck.
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Sudden death playoffs are the highest drama available in dg currently. Just calling it a tie is LAME. While LAME is not a quantifiable facet of play I know it when I see it.
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Overtime should be designed to decide a winner in the fastest way possible through a method that still functions like normal game play. So sudden death is fine. What college football does is an abomination.

But, if 2 players end up tied after multiple rounds the most accurate decision would be to declare them to be equals. What's wrong with a tie?
Personally, I am not in favor of sudden death or other playoffs, NOR am I in favor of ties. I think the current system really favors the player throwing second (or last for multiple players).
Regardless if you agree or disagree that one throwing order is favorable or not, at the very least the throwing order should rotate for additional holes when you play sudden death. Like it or not, sudden death is a different sport, as can be seen by what Robert posted earlier, and how he played that sudden death hole.

If I were king of disc golf, I'd eliminate playoffs altogether for B-tiers and C-tiers. Ties for first place would be decided by a particular stat (determined in the rules). It would be just as easy, and just as fair to have a card score playoff beginning with the scorecard on hole 1. Now the only way they are still tied is if BOTH players had the exact same score on all 18 holes. Then I'd move to a second stat, like fairway hits or putting percentage, etc. Plus, players would know going into the 18th hole if they had the tie-breaker advantage or not. Happens all the time in team sports with tie-breakers (first tie breaker is head-to-head, then record in the division, then record in the conference, etc.

A-tier and above could be discussed, but I'd prefer an aggregate over sudden death, with some type of rotation on throwing order.

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  #25  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:21 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
... I wonder a bit why the PDGA mandates ties be broken; if all players involved agree to remain tied, what difference does it make?
Maybe because they would then need to give each player a half (or third, etc.) of a win, and they don't want to change the field for "career wins" from an integer to a real number.

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  #26  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:31 AM
philstine philstine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I've never seen it happen, but it's possible a scorecard error, when corrected, results in a tie---and that tie-breaker would get off to a late start.
2013 Memorial.

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  #27  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:31 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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At more than one event I've run, I've had tiebreaker playoffs delay things. First, as a TD, I never allow playoffs to start until all scores in a particular division have been turned in and verified. Once I had two players on the lead card tie and begin their playoff (before the card was even turned in) only to find out a player on the third card shot a super hot round and was tied as well. I make it a point that cards must be turned in before a playoff, and further that all cards within that division have to be in as well. If the last card turned in is in that division, then they wait for it.

I've also had sudden death playoffs take 7-8+ holes to complete, once when I was involved in it so even though everything was counted and verified (thanks to others stepping in), awards had to wait until I was done so I could conduct them. Another time, I decided to just start the awards while a playoff went on because it was MPO and I figured they usually are the last awards given so they'll be done before I get to them. Got to the end of awards and they still weren't done so everyone else left.

For that reason, I changed my playoff set-up from "start at one and keep going" to a specific loop of holes that kept everything nearer tourney central. Half the reason that one MPO playoff took so long is they had to hike back from the furthest point on the course once they finished...and it was January so they were trudging through snow.

So I've had plenty of reason to want the fastest possible tiebreaker. I couldn't care less about drama because I find when you try to manufacture drama is when you're least likely to get it.
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:32 AM
Lazerface Lazerface is offline
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I like the way the PGA does it. No blanket rule. I like the idea of aggregate for major and maybe NTs rather than sudden death for all.

If events have a final 9, then I would say sudden death for sure.
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:39 AM
Lazerface Lazerface is offline
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The idea of determining any tie based on some other stat in a singles format, regardless of the event level, makes me want to puke.

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  #30  
Old 11-22-2017, 06:37 PM
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ejvogie ejvogie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerface View Post
The idea of determining any tie based on some other stat in a singles format, regardless of the event level, makes me want to puke.
I am a math nerd, but tournaments should be won on the course
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